Question:
I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, but I have looked on the boards and thought I should put the Prime Lease Program argument to rest.
Yes, I am a Lease Operator running for Prime. Yes, you can make a good living with them, if you know what you are doing and treat it like a business and not a job.
I give Prime $865.00 a week out of my settlement to cover everything with them, such as All insurance, plates, permits and 2003 Freightliner Columbia truck payments. Fuel is the only thing not covered. Fuel for me is about $800 a week running 2900 miles average or more a week in the reefer divison. The average rate is $0.95 to $1.10 a mile for the regional run im in. The Deck is sorta stacked against you when you lease but, you can make money. You have to pay $0.05 a mile for the trucks dep. value if you run between 2300 and 3600 miles a week, but the fuel surcharge usally pays for it. Also, there is a Tire and Preventive Maintance charge to cover your regular maintance, which is $0.035 a mile . I average $650 to $1,200 income for myself a week. I made in 2003 from Prime $46755.75 gross. The hometime is 2-3 weeks out for regional runs and 3-5 weeks for 48 states and Canada. If you need miles they will give them to you, you just have to ask. The lease program isn't for everyone but, if you are business savy, you can make it work. You have to do it to know it. Many drivers that end up at the bottom at Prime don't simply do enough, take long breaks or don't watch expenses. The Drivers that stay here are the drivers that know what they are doing like myself and are making the plan work. This is just to clear things up.

Answer:
I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, but I have looked on the boards and thought I should put the Prime Lease Program argument to rest.
If you read the many,many postings on here about prime and know your going to get bashed but still believe that you can clear up the image that most have about the lease program for Prime,then your either a very brave person or a glutton for the punishment,that will be forthcoming.
Best of luck,and remember when your thread gets tossed back in your lap,hold your temper.
******************************
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
~ Will Rogers


Answer:
THANK YOU of beginning this thread.
As a newbie, I'm not about to "bash" you for taking the time to provide your side of the Truck Lease story. I'm glad you have been successful but I know you worked hard to BE successful. In my past life as a fireman I ran a very successful "part-time" home maintenance business which grew and grew until it was supporting 5-families. It was WORK! Both in the field and in the office.
I'm going to ask you several honest, straight-forward questions as I'm considering my own truck in the future....as an OTR O/O or an Expediter.
Were all your efforts worth it..???
I know you spent alot of time and energy being a businessman in addition to being a professional driver.
Did you make enough money to make all that energy/focus/heartburn worth it..???
Could you have made the same gross income by just being a hard driving "company driver"...??
While my "part-time" business was successful, after 7-years I was burnt-out!!! I swore I'd never again be an employer/owner. Now that I'm retired from that lifestyle and not so over-loaded, so.... MAYBE being an O/O would be appropriate.(???)
Any insights you feel like sharing will be appreciated.
Be Safe and Happy Trails!!!
FireGears-wishing you much success in 2004

Answer:
Originally posted by FireGears:
THANK YOU of beginning this thread.
As a newbie, I'm not about to "bash" you for taking the time to provide your side of the Truck Lease story. I'm glad you have been successful but I know you worked hard to BE successful. In my past life as a fireman I ran a very successful "part-time" home maintenance business which grew and grew until it was supporting 5-families. It was WORK! Both in the field and in the office.
I'm going to ask you several honest, straight-forward questions as I'm considering my own truck in the future....as an OTR O/O or an Expediter.
Were all your efforts worth it..???
I know you spent alot of time and energy being a businessman in addition to being a professional driver.
Did you make enough money to make all that energy/focus/heartburn worth it..???
Could you have made the same gross income by just being a hard driving "company driver"...??
While my "part-time" business was successful, after 7-years I was burnt-out!!! I swore I'd never again be an employer/owner. Now that I'm retired from that lifestyle and not so over-loaded, so.... MAYBE being an O/O would be appropriate.(???)
Any insights you feel like sharing will be appreciated.
Be Safe and Happy Trails!!!
FireGears-wishing you much success in 2004
FireGears, Yes my efforts are worth it. I did Prime as Newbie 2 years ago and fell flat on my face, hard, really hard. The first year I almost lost everything I had, because of stupid planning and budgeting. Untill I learn everything that goes into your bank account isn't yours to keep and spend like I did. I learned to run smarter not harder. I made more money than I thought I would have made in 2 years, trying to run a business. I have had a few firends that had their own businesses (non-trucking) and closed up in 4-6 years and not making more than $1500 a month.
I don't really think it would be easier to get with a company that give me more pay in the short run, because of the fact that I would start out at about $0.32 to $0.36 a mile and driving 2500 miles a week with my experience of 2 years OTR and make about $900 a week, which is about the same now, but I have gained valuable knowledge of how a trucking company runs and what you have to watch to make a profit, this is something you don't learn as a company driver and if you go from a company driver to an O/O. I believe truly it would be rough to make the transision. Also, if need be and I blow to much money I can always get miles to recover. I do like the fact I can choose to be home at a certain time off or vactions when I choose as long as I have the money to cover the truck payments. And yes I do get home every 2 to 3 weeks in the regional reefer divsion.
The good thing out of this is the Columbia I am in now I had from the start of 2003 when it was bought new. So, when the lease is up with the truck. I am going to buy the truck from Prime and get my own authority or lease on to a company. By which time the truck payment from a private lender should be anywhere from $1200 to $1600 a month, which will save me more money.
In a simple statement, Yes it has been worth it. If you go Prime, take the business classes in Springfield, watch your expenses and talk to your driver manager if you have an issue with rates or miles.

Answer:
Do Not Confuse an Owner-Operator(O/O) with a Lease-Operator(L/O).
An O/O, is a person who OWNS & Operates the trk they are drving.
A L/O, is a person who is LEASING(renting) the trk they are drving.(they do NOT Ever Own the trk...they turn the trk in at the end of the lease, providing they make it that far.)
For info about becoming a true O/O, check out the link below.
http://www.partners-in-business.com/
==================================================================
IMO, $4600/mnth(does NOT include fuel) is a bit Much for a trk you will NEVER OWN!
==============================================================
[This message was edited by choclit snda on January 08, 2004 at 4:53.]

Answer:
Originally posted by choclit snda:
Do Not Confuse an Owner-Operator_(O/O)_ with a Lease-Operator_(L/O)_.
An _O/O_, is a person who _OWNS_ & Operates the trk they are drving.
A L/O, is a person who is LEASING_(renting)_ the trk they are drving._(they do NOT Ever Own the trk...they turn the trk in at the end of the lease, providing they make it that far.)_
For info about becoming a true O/O, check out the link below.
_ http://www.partners-in-business.com/ _
I know that all to well. I just mean I have the option to purchase the truck myself after my lease is up in 2 years. Then I am free to go to whoever I want. Wether it be Prime again, lease to another company or go get my own authority. The only real reason I am staying in this is because I am trying to get more insight into running a business and try to do my own thing later.
I feel the way with the truck and purchasing it. I started out with a 1999 Century in 2002 when I started and it was junk, literaly, atleast this way with a brand new 2003 Columbia im in now and got when it was new. I know who had it, how it was driven and how it was maintaned. So, when I go to another company or do my own thing, I have knowledge of how to run and have a truck with fairly low mileage (it should have about 400,000 when 2006 rolls around). Trucks at Prime with these miles now on them go for $30,000 to $40,000 depending on the year, so im hoping to make out better after Prime.

Answer:
Using this person's mileage as an Example,(2900mi/wk) let's do a little "ciphering".(as Jethro Bodine, would say.)
Miles/Wk: 2900 x 4wks=11,600miles/mnth
To make things easy to figure out, I will say that this drvr makes $1.00/mile.(just an Average)
Lease Payment=====$865/wk x 4wks===$3460
Wkly Fuel=========$800/wk x 4wks===$3200
Tire/Maint Charge=$.35cpmx2900mi=$1015x4wks=$4060
Trk Depreciation==$.05cpm x 2900mi=$145x4wks=$580
This person is dishing out Approx $11300/mnth, on trk expenses ONLY.
And if he is getting $1.00 per mile...that means that he is only bringing home $300/mnth. (providing there are No major breakdowns or tolls or lumpers.)
Hopefully, this drvr has a wife that has a good paying job, b/c he has to eat while otr & his family has to eat at home & he still has rent or house payments & utilities at home to pay, he also has health & life insurance & home & car insurance to pay.(I hope he does Not have any credit card payments or car payments.)
Take Home ======$11,600/mnth
Trking Expenses=$11,300/mnth
I don't know about you, but I can bring home More than $300/mnth being a Company Drvr.
I forgot to ADD the drvr's Fuel SurCharge, so ADD about $695/mnth to that $300.(this brings his wkly take home pay UP to about $250/wk.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Newbie that gets 2500miles/wk @ .25cpm makes $625/wk. ($625 x 4wks=$$2500/mnth)

Answer:
average 2900 miles a week=150800 miles a year
$46755.75 divided by 150,800=.31cpm
That includes money for extra stops,unloading,ect.
Lease operater pays twice the social security tax as an employee,with the employer paying half of it 7.5% as an employee and the employer pays the other half.
The self employed lease driver pays the full 15% themselves.
It equals .02 cpm
.31cpm minus an additional tax of .02=.29cpm
You have forfitted all protections under labor laws and if you get sick or hurt,your screwed.An accident,all sorts of deductables and if your truck don't run,your loosing a fortune while it's repaired,same with breakdowns.
""I average $650 to $1,200 income for myself a week""
If you understood the word average,you would divide 46755.75 by 52 weeks and come up with $900.00 a week.Minus the additional social security tax=832.50 per week or .29cpm which includes the extra pay for unloading,extra stops,ect.
Most company jobs pay around .32cpm to start,plus health insurance and extra for stops and unloading,they offer other benifits like 401k,profit sharing and bonus's
you can do better than prime
=================
If you have a good work ethic in trucking,you will go far.
The new HOS will be{{{{what you make of it}}}}
With proper time management,you will adapt and succeed in a changing enviroment.
Answer:
$0.035 a mile
Hey Choc,you missed a zero .035 not .35
=================
If you have a good work ethic in trucking,you will go far.
The new HOS will be{{{{what you make of it}}}}
With proper time management,you will adapt and succeed in a changing enviroment.
Answer:
Oops, my bad!
So, he's making a few hundred bucks a wk More than I had previously calculated.(still Not worth the BS of a lease)

Answer:
Brand new Freightliner Columbia $96,000 (per Truckpaper ads)
Finance zero down for 5 years at 15% apr your payements would be approx $2284 per month, at which time you would fully own the truck. This comes to $27408 per year in truck purchase payments. $137,040 for the total purchase price.
Now last I knew with Prime the basic lease price of a new truck was somewhere around $685 per week (just for the truck not including any lisc, insurance, and other charges). $685 per week for 52 weeks is $35,620 in payments per year (or $2968 per month if you average it out). Now I just looked at Primes web site and a New truck the lease is now 4 years to complete. So $35,620 for 4 years is $142,480.
Ok to sum it up:
Prime lease/Buy
Total Cost $142,480/$137,040
Monthly Cost $2968/$2284
So in 5 years I could BUY a brand new truck and still pay less than if I leased the same basic truck from Prime for 4 years and not own it outright at the end of the lease.
Now tell me again how Prime is a good deal.
I will always be a mutter trucker at heart.
Answer:
And he failed to say how much the ballon payment is at the end to own the truck..
And he also failed to add in the price of maintentce every month. .035 is not that much when you do the math. (oil changes ect ect) And lets not forget that you have to pay Uncle Sam..That is not figured into this either..
By my calculations I would say that you have only been there a few months maybe 4 tops..
You are still a Newbie for them give it a few more months and the bottom will fall out as it has for so many others.
He also failed to mention his NET pay
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away

Answer:
Originally posted by zigzag:
average 2900 miles a week=150800 miles a year
$46755.75 divided by 150,800=.31cpm
That includes money for extra stops,unloading,ect.
Lease operater pays twice the social security tax as an employee,with the employer paying half of it 7.5% as an employee and the employer pays the other half.
The self employed lease driver pays the full 15% themselves.
It equals .02 cpm
.31cpm minus an additional tax of .02=.29cpm
You have forfitted all protections under labor laws and if you get sick or hurt,your screwed.An accident,all sorts of deductables and if your truck don't run,your loosing a fortune while it's repaired,same with breakdowns.
""I average $650 to $1,200 income for myself a week""
If you understood the word average,you would divide 46755.75 by 52 weeks and come up with $900.00 a week.Minus the additional social security tax=832.50 per week or .29cpm which includes the extra pay for unloading,extra stops,ect.
Most company jobs pay around .32cpm to start,plus health insurance and extra for stops and unloading,they offer other benifits like 401k,profit sharing and bonus's
you can do better than prime
=================
If you have a good work ethic in trucking,you will go far.
The new HOS will be{{{{what you make of it}}}}
With proper time management,you will adapt and succeed in a changing enviroment.
Your math is correct, but you are using the wrong assumptions. I don't stay out for 52 weeks straight. I drove last year for 46 weeks that includes 2 days off ever 2 or 3 weeks and a 1 week vaction (at my own expense). Which averages out to $0.35 a mile to me. If I would run harder or refuse loads to get better ones I could make alot more.

Answer:
Originally posted by Little Red:
And he failed to say how much the ballon payment is at the end to own the truck..
And he also failed to add in the price of maintentce every month. .035 is not that much when you do the math. (oil changes ect ect) And lets not forget that you have to pay Uncle Sam..That is not figured into this either..
By my calculations I would say that you have only been there a few months maybe 4 tops..
You are still a Newbie for them give it a few more months and the bottom will fall out as it has for so many others.
He also failed to mention his _NET_ pay
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away
There is no "ballon" payment at the end of the lease. You have to get your own private lender to purchase the truck yourself. So, your bank or whoever pays Prime and intern you pay your lender back for the truck. As far as Net Income goes I would say I made in 2003 around $36,000 minus taxes, truck expenses and health care.

Answer:
you can purchase the truck at the end of the lease for "fair market value". Currently Century Class type trucks that are 4 years old are going for around $28,000-$32,000 and since the Columbia are cheaper to begin with they should sell for a bit less at that time. The Century Classes seem to be selling for around $40-$45,000 at the 3 year old mark.
So in 3 years you have already paid around $106,000 for the truck and then you are going to pay another $40-$45,000 on top of that....so that is $146,000-$151,000 for a truck that cost around $96,000 new...and that does not even include the intrest charges for the $40,000 you end up financing when you actually get around to "buying" the truck.
Yep sounds like a great deal to me......sign me up.....(for electro-shock therapy)
I will always be a mutter trucker at heart.