Question:
I just got my CDL and a guy was telling me about this web site and I have a question.
Why do they make us drive when we are tired? When I'm wide awake my log book says I must sleep or my Uncle is hollering at me about this 70 hours deal.
Why do I have to stay away from home just because he says I already ran 70 hours? I came home anyway and then he was mad.
I just don't understand the concept behind these hours rules. If I'm OK to drive why shouldn't I?

Answer:
here's the readers digest verion: 70 hour rule is you cannot be on duty driving or on duty not driving for more than 70 hours in an 8 day period. You may not drive more than 10 hours without taking a 8 hour break(off duty or sleeper berth) in any 24 hour period(you don't get to drive tll midnight and then get to drive 10 more hours). You may drive more than 10 hours in a 24 hour period, but you must take an 8 hour break first,ex: you started at 0000, you drove until 1000, slept for 8 hours, you may now drive for 10 more hours, unless you have used up your 70 hours. If you run over your 70 or 10 hours, you are in violation of federal regulations, and subject to fines. If you do not know how to fill out a logbook, read the directions in it, on the opening page with your monthly summary sheet. Do not listen to truck stop cowboys and how they log. Just get a good grip on it, and from there you can be taught the rules that are more confusing. How much do you know about driving truck anyhow?And why won't your uncle tell you how to properly fill out your logbook? OH!!!! IF you really need help, find an open weigh station, and explain your plight to the on duty officer, and most likely they will help you understand the logbook and how to use it. just be honest and don't argue with the officer.
there's alot more to it, such as what is on duty not driving and the difference between off duty or sleeper and when you can use either of them. What part of country you drivin in?
try this site
If at first you don't suceed, get a bigger hammer
[This message was edited by bigJ on November 02, 2002 at 17:26.]

Answer:
The reason to run 'legal' is, (because if you don't and are in an accident, caught at a scale or whatever), your wallet will be lightened and / or your life can and will take a turn for the worst.
eg: Say you're running 2 hours over on your 'daily limit', some dumbazz cuts you off, there's a wreck and people are injured or killed.
Who's gonna pay for it? (whether it was your fault or not)
YOU WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!! You'll pay for it, either monetarily or with a prison term.
'NUFF SAID!
I hate to sound blunt and straight to the point, but that's just how the prosecuting attorney is gonna look at it.
My suggestion is to study the HOS Regs and follow them.

Answer:
Man that all sounds kind of confusing. My uncle did go over it with me and he has me calling him on the cell phone a lot and is helping me. He wants me running legally because he says he can get in deep stuff too. I think that is why he ripped me a new one for driving all the way back to the house but I felt fine. If I follow what he tells me I seem to be driving tired after being awake cause I just cant fall a sleep sometimes and it seems like it would be safer just to finish the trip and then fix up the logbook later on.
Why did they make a system that cuts you short on this 70 deal and makes you drive at all different hours when you could just like finish the trip and then crash out and get some good rest. Sometimes you sit at these peoples docks and waste alot of valuable driving or sleeping time and then they want there stuff in the next town in the morning.
Like I said buddy I'm confused. This has been a long couple of months.

Answer:
it's an old,flawed system,but it works for the most part. driving when you want to sleep is bad time management. If you know you will be driving all night,and you have the hours,get some rest. LEARN TO MAKE THE LOGBOOK WORK FOR YOU,not the other way around, and keep it legal. if you are in accident,regardless of if you caused it, you are at fault, because technically you weren't supposed to be there.
If at first you don't suceed, get a bigger hammer

Answer:
None of us like the log rules as there written but must follow them. As Hoss said, you can be sued and lose everything. You always hear drivers on the CB saying, their not going to sue me. Yah right.
I have to agree with you about having to drive when your tired because you have hours to run. Then when your not tired, you cannot run because you don't have the hours. It's crazy, when I'm tired, I go to sleep, screw everyone else. Out of 24 hours I need at least 8 hours of straight uninterrupted sleep.
Running long distance, my sleep parterns would cycle around the clock in less than 5 days. To me personally, that was a very comfortable time table. When I'm not tired, I want to run, when I'm tired, I sleep 8 or 9 hours. I would like to see the 70 hour rule dropped altogether, with a driver option, not a company option, to stop at 70 if they need too.. Keep the 10/15 hour rule in place. This way, drivers are able to get home.
The proposed 12 hour rule I don't like, I'm happy with the 10/15 hour rule. That gives me enough time to sleep and run steady without being tired. After 8 hours of sleep, I'm ready to go until I get tired again.
One of the big reasons truck drivers are driving the way they do now is the way the log rules are written. Speeding, driving tired, ie, sleep depravation over time, is causing or a contributing factor in many trucking accidents.
Drivers need to be well rested according to their personal sleep cycles, not someone elses sleep cycles sitting in a chair with 4 wheels behind a desk in Washington.
The biggest complaint amoung drivers is not getting the quality sleep they need. Let us sleep when we need to sleep and drive when we're well rested. I've never met a truck driver who said, he or she like to drive when their tired, never!!!
If the DOT wants to see safer drivers and safer roads concerning trucks, give the drivers more flexibilty on the logs and much more stricter regulations on the trucking companies, shippers, receivers. Drivers know when it's safe for them to drive and when it's not safe. Not someone sitting in a chair 1000 miles away.

Answer:
Say I'm running from Minneapolis to Los Angeles and have plenty of available hours to do so.
I run 10's and 8's, but after the second set of 10 hours driving, I'm wiped out. Even after 8 hours "off" after the 2nd set of 10 driving.
Say I do:
10 hours on duty/driving
8 hours off or sleeper
10 hours on duty/driving
8 hours off or sleeper
when I get back on the road, I have 10 hours of drive time before I have to shut down.
My body says different though. Say that last 8 hours 'off' ends at 2 am, I ge t back in the seat and roll down the road.
I can guarantee that within 2-3 hours, I WILL be taking a nap! Whether it's a 2 hour or 7 hour nap, I will be sleeping! HOS and my carrier be damned!
The HOS is flawed, they'll hang us for breaking it, but 95% of the drivers I know don't run 100% legal.
I personally would like to see 70/7 (drive time) hours daily. Add another 10 hours 'on duty' for a week. 70/8 would be non-existant. (I wish)
There is no load worth you risking your life or the lives of others just because some A-hole broker/dispatcher/owner wants his stuff there yesterday.
Are you willing to spend time in prison over a load of stuffed toys or some other load?
Not me!∞

Answer:
well at .22 I have to run some miles buddy to make some money and my aunt is the one that does the dispatching. They dont force me but you have a schedule. I know you know this cause you have probably been driven for a while.

Answer:
That is why I would get rid of the rules completely but never get rid of log book. A record of a log book acts as your protection in many ways outside of the HOS rules. You still have to keep records.
I hear about drivers not keeping records of their runs, that's crazy. Drivers will always need to keep accurate records, that just makes good business sense, whether your an O/O or company driver.
Everyone's sleeping cycles are differant. There were some days I too would be wiped after driving only a few hours after 8 hours of sleep and go back to sleep for a few hours. It was often due to sleep depravation over the last two days. I'd have to make up any lost sleep I had in the past.
There are a lot of drivers who cannot sleep while their getting loaded or unloaded. Some drivers can fall asleep anytime, like throwing a switch, others cannot.
Some people can only sleep 5 hours out of 24 and their awake. I wish I could do that but my body and mind cannot. I'd be a time bomb on the road.
Years ago you didn't need to focus like you need to today. There is so much traffic and so many crazy people out driving today you need to focus and concentrate every minute, every mile. When your tired you cannot focus and your concentration goes right down the tubes. Your reaction times suffer greatly.
This is the reason I could only do long haul. I cannot do OTR short hauls. In two days I'm wiped out. My sleep patterns go against the norm. I've been out of trucking since 4/01 and have not worked at all during that time.
My sleep cycles go all the way around the clock and that for me personaly is more natural. If they ever got me into a sleep study program, I'd throw their statistics out the window on how they study sleep patterns. I wonder how many people out there are like me. Sleep experts say you cannot cycle around the clock for any length of time, yet I've been doing that for many years. I'm not normal according to the sleep studies but my cycles work for me.
It may sound weird but I fudge the log book to get my sleep, not to run. I've made some enemies over the years about sleeping. I know the importantance of driving and getting the proper sleep. I attribute over a million miles running 48 states and a 13 year clean and accident free MVR as a result of getting the proper sleep.
If I followed the log book rules on the 10/15 hour rule as it's written, I'd be a menace on the highway. My sleep was a lot more important than that log book. A one size fits all log book is very very dangerous. When your tired, sleep, then you'll be a safe driver. Log books and the logging rules don't "make" safe drivers. What makes safe drivers is getting the sleep they need when they need it.
For some unknown reason, people involved in this business cannot figure out, under the current rules, your sometimes penalized on the log for sleeping. They just don't get how that can happen. Anyone who knows how to properly fill out a log book, should understand how that happens. That needs to be changed. Drivers should never be penalized on their sleeping times in a way that interferes with their ability in running safely.
I keep saying it over and over again. Truck drivers do not want to drive tired, they hate it. It's one of their single biggest complaints in this business. Yet the DOT sits back twiddling their thumbs and does absolutly nothing to help truck drivers drive safely. The DOT is great at creating a bureacratic danderous nightmare and creating a very dangerous driving environment for the motoring public. That is where the DOT shines the most. As long as the DOT creates dangerous one size fits all logging rules, the DOT is going to also create dangerous highways.

Answer:
Originally posted by Today's Tom Sawyer:
well at .22 I have to run some miles buddy to make some money and my aunt is the one that does the dispatching. They dont force me but you have a schedule. I know you know this cause you have probably been driven for a while.
Forget the money. If you want to make good money, you are in the wrong business. Run it legal, or when you don't and you wreck, you will be sued, probably several times; you will be issued citations for logbook violations, and they are a federal offense; and if you kill anyone, you might as well kiss 50% of your paychecks for the next 20 years goodbye, as well as your driving career.
You will have to figure out a way to sleep when you don't have hours, and drive when you do. Money means very little when you flip your truck over on top of a car carrying someone's family.
If you are tired, go to bed, regardless of what the logbook say you have remaining in hours. The load you are pulling does no one any good scattered all over the median after you fall asleep behind the wheel and flip your truck.
If push comes to shove, you need to look out for yourself and the motoring public. The shippers and receivers can go to hell.If they wanted the freight faster, they should have shipped it Fed Ex. You are the only one who knows when you can safely drive, but you must do so within the constraints of the rules.
We have too many yahoos driving trucks today who could give a rat's arse about following any sort of regulation, and they are the boils on trucking's butt.
Be safe, and follow the rules. If you cannot follow the rules, you need to find another line of work that has more agreeable rules.
Happy trucking, keep asking questions and learning!
_________________
@#*!%$^@!

Answer:
Hmmm ... isn't there any agency (like the Union) who can go to bat for you drivers and change the 70 rules to what Hoss suggested? Seems like they'd want safer drivers out there who are wide awake and alert!!!
I don't know the answer, as I'm still learning from you experienced drivers, before I take my school!!!
"When you think you're at the end of your rope --- reach down and tie another knot!"

Answer:
Originally posted by piks95:
Hmmm ... isn't there any agency (like the Union) who can go to bat for you drivers and change the 70 rules to what Hoss suggested? Seems like they'd want safer drivers out there who are wide awake and alert!!! -->
A year or so ago (maybe longer) the USDOT held hearings across the country to try to 'fix' the HOS. After much input and many meetings, they just put it on the 'back burner' so to speak. They ain't done anything with it since that I know of.
No the IBT would not be interested. The Union carriers are operateing profitably with in the rules. The Union drivers are already the safest
drivers because of Union rules concerning safety
and wages. Just for your information take a look at the contracts they work under to give you an idea how they operate. This is not a IBT endorsement post,it's meant to provide information to the people that don't have the knowlege only.
http://www.ur12.org/
http://www.teamster.org/
and to see another veiw
http://www.tdu.org/
and for real entertainment
http://www.teamster.net/index.php?f=0
Mike
_________________
Mike

Answer:
I agree, you cannot fore go sleep for the money. Driving tired is like driving drunk. Your speech begins to slur, you cannot walk straight, cannot think clearly, slow reaction times, your like a zombie. Been there, done that, years ago. It's not worth the couple dollars more you'll get.
You experience higher stress levels, burn yourself out faster, become irritable, frustration sets in, and experience other health problems.
I strongly suspect a lot of the irritability, frustration and lack of patience you hear from drivers on the CB, is a direct result of sleep depravation. Their rolling time bombs.
You'll enjoy driving much more by not driving tired or with sleep depravation and you won't experience the above symptoms.
There is a trade off with running hard, it's called outright misery.
You have to operated within the frame work of the rules. Drivers bend the 10/15 hour rule but you cannot bend the 70 hour rule at all. You cannot bend the 10/15 to the point where your driving fatigued or cannot show a legal log. There are commom sense limits.
Drivers have to control themselves and not run hog wild because someone tells you to or your money hungry. Your responsible for getting from a to b in one piece, with zero accidents and zero violations, everytime.
Look at carriers like England, they'll run you until you kill somebody. Companies like England are dangerous irresponsible carriers. There are a lot of carriers I'd never work for because of their shenaigans.
There are a 101 ways a carrier can get rid of a driver who doesn't run the way they want them to run. They'll let you run legal and won't force the issue but they'll find another way to get rid of you quickly. Carriers are not that dumb as to fire a driver for not running illegal, they know better than that. They have other tricks up their sleeves to force a driver out.