Question:
Ok, Werner maybe the greatest company to work for, but look at the DOT statistics. Does the QualComm make a driver safer? I get a kick out of all this legal and illegal talk. I would rather run DOT illegal and be alive then run Werner DOT legal and be dead. Ok, so the QualComm allows you to run legal. Does this mean all QualComm data is sent straight to the DOT? Nope. Werner can fudge it around.
View the website and get the answers:
http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/wernerscrews
Joe Raleigh

Answer:
Originally posted by prudendal:
Ok, Werner maybe the greatest company to work for, but look at the DOT statistics. Does the QualComm make a driver safer? I get a kick out of all this legal and illegal talk. I would rather run DOT illegal and be alive then run Werner DOT legal and be dead. Ok, so the QualComm allows you to run legal. Does this mean all QualComm data is sent straight to the DOT? Nope. Werner can fudge it around.
View the website and get the answers:
http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/wernerscrews
Joe Raleigh
If you talk to that guy Shuffler who's a trainer for Werner, he'll tell you that Werner is a great gig. Guess that website tells a different story though. That's why it's so important to do alot of research and get information from MANY different sources before you do the "Neste Plunge" into the wonderful world of OTR.
http://www.subway.com
"Daddy was a veteran, a southern Democrat. They oughta get a rich man to vote like that." - Alabama

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Ya I cant make heads or tails over Werner.

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Gene-
I don't necessarily think Werner's a "great gig". I just try to tell it like I've experienced it -- good and bad -- and try to dispel some of the innacurate myths and rumors, like Prudental's statement:
Ok, so the QualComm allows you to run legal. Does this mean all QualComm data is sent straight to the DOT? Nope. Werner can fudge it around
Ok, here are the facts (again).
Werner doesn't "fudge" the data. The driving time is rock-solid accurate. If anything, the system works to the driver's disadvantage if it's in doubt about drive time. All significent drive time (except rolling a short distance at the same location at a truck stop or customer) puts the driver on line-3. This is done my measuring BOTH gps location and odometer readings, sent with EVERY message created by the driver, as well as random position reports periodically sent by the truck.
Is the log data sent directly to DOT? Well...yes, in fact, it IS!
DOT's traditional wayto audit paper logs is to have manpower pour over thousand of hand-written pages -- a "sampling" of that company's compliance. When DOT audits paperless, they audit EVERY entry made by EVERY truck. Werner sends ALL the data (via the internet) to DOT for the audit, where it's analyzed electronically for compliance. That's why DOT likes this system. It's cheaperh (less man hours) and more comprehensive an audit than deciphering paper logs by hand.
The only thing that can be "fudged" is when the driver sends a macro-50 to move line-4 time. And even then, there's just a few things they'll let the driver move -- like combining a vi with a fueling, if both take place back-to-back after an 8-hour break, for example. That's not "fudging" anyway. It's in compliance with the intrpretations(s) Werner, QUalComm and DOT have agreed to in setting up the system (which DOT helped pay for, by the way)
The paperless system has been continously tweaked and altered this last year in preparation for it's transition from a DOT "pilot project" to it's current "permanant" status, which Werner and QualComm achieved a few weks ago.
By the way -- QualComm owns the paperless system. Werner sold it to them in exange for air time and to satisfy DOT concerns about conflict of interest between Werner and it's competition as other carriers start using it. QualComm is now able to sell the Paperless Logging service to other DOT-qualifying carriers, and it is. It's no longer just Werner. Like it or not, this is the "black box" you're going to see lots of carriers using.
Prudential, if you have any specific questions about how the system works, let me know. I'd be happy to answer them for you and set you straight on the facts. If you worked for Werner a couple years ago, the system's changed. The biggest change is eliminating the auto-default to off-duty when there's no truck movement. Other recent changes (prior to it's upgrade to DOT "permanaent status" a few weeks ago) include the keyboard now being disabled when the truck's rolling, and the elminnation of off-duty driving (dead-heading to home time) outside a terminal city. It's VERY tight now, and I assure you -- with 10,000 drivers trying every trick in the book.....it does NOT let you fudge any drive time what-so-ever.
If you want to complain about Werner -- the REAL problem they've contributed to in the industry is their aggressive predatory rate pricing. They - and other large carriers - have driven rates to unpractical lows. They complain about operating on shoe-string profit margins (Werner's still slightly below 8%), but the fact is, THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES.
Paperless logging was never intended to be a major safety enhancer alone. The whole point was to create a system that maximizes load-matching to driver's available hours, by monitoring and supervising the driver in real time. I'm NEVER held to a schedule that's not legally possible. I NEVER drive more than ten hours before taking an 8-hour break. I get great miles -- not just logged legal, but run legal. Paperless logging forces load planners and dispatchers to do a better job matching loads for better productivity (less down time between loads), without forcing the driver to run illegal to meet delivery schedules.
It may not produce better safety stastics, but it's sure a hell-of a lot better way to run a trucking company than keeping drivers layed-over, then running them illegal to make-up the difference. It "smooths" the work-flow for drivers, and puts responsibility for scheduling legal matches on the planners/dispatchers --- where it belongs.
Of course, paperless lets the compnay enforce the very maximum productivity the law allows (10-8-10- when they need to. So despite the "smoothing" effect it has on the driver's schedule, it still allows some hard running on occasion -- up to about 800 miles per 24-hours, about the maximum you can squeeze out of the system in strict HOS compliance. But the new regs will reduce that hard-running some, by reducing the maximum driving driving hours each 24-hour period from apx 15 to apx 13. In fact, it's almost like the new regs were specifically designed for paperless. (hmmmm....)
Werner (and others....hmmmmmm) will have to make-up this difference by reducing some waiting time (betwen loads, etc) which will further smooth the driver's work flow.
Don't knock it till you've tried it. Working a more normal day and sleeping a more mormal sleep schedule has it's advantages.
.
[This message was edited by Shuffler on June 13, 2003 at 15:48.]

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I'm just trying to understand the paperless logs. I've been told Werner drivers also have to keep a paper log?
That if you are "pulled" around back D.O.T. can just plug into the puter to pull up the your logs?
I realize they have alot of trucks, but how do you explain all the log infractions that safer sys shows? Inspections/Infractions
Finally, all the dual black stripes you see on the interstates, is that because the Werner drivers ran out of time and the truck shut down? .....Sorry bad humor, but seriously on the others!
Drive on! bandit58....

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" because the Werner drivers ran out of time and the truck shut down?" That's why you never want to followone of them, ya never know.
About all them infractions, it's simple. Safer has their numbers wrong like everyone else.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

Answer:
Right! The truck shuts-of by remote control. What a brilliant concept!!
Seriously, can you imagine the liability and safety hazard that would cause? Computers and QuallCom aren't perfect enough to take that risk (yet). One little glitch and the truck shuts down? No. The driver drives the truck, not the log department. They can't even shut-down a stolen truck, let alone one that's in violation.
But that's one of my favorite rumors -- certainly the funniest.
The logs are computed and recorded at the main terminal in Omaha. If we get pulled-in or pulled over, we show our logs by either scrolling through the log data on the QualComm keyboard display to show when we sent change of duty messages, or (more typically) enforcement gives us a fax number. We send a log request on the QualComm and type in the number.
The two times in five years I've had to show my logs to anyone, they walked up at the scale and gave me their fax number. By the time I parked and walked back, they already had it in their hand.
The reason our stastics look odd is because the system logs EXACTLY what we dol. Other drivers can "log legal" and cover-up their infractions -- and do.
We can't. What they get is exactly when the truck actually moved.
If you measured the paper-logging drivers the way we're measured, they'd be off the scale on violations. Fifteen minutes over is fifteen minutes over on paperless. Most drivers can make it look legal. We can't.
When enforcement looks at old paper logs, they look at what the driver wrote down, not what the driver necessarily ran.
When enforcement looks at paperless logs, they look at what the driver DID run. I'm surprised our numbers are as good as they are. No one else would even come close if they had a system like this checking their work and matching it to their truck's movement.
Paperless drivers are required to carry a paper log book in case the system goes down. If your truck's QualComm unit goes down, you log on paper until the unit's repaired. A signed paper log in the possession of the driver, over-rides the electronic log. The driver faxes a copy of each day to the log department (after midnignt) and they manually input your written log into the system. When you get the unit repaired, it picks-up where you left off, and you still have an accurate summary. (these breakdown are rare -- the system is extremely reliable, and Werner has to document proof for DOT that there's a breakdown, before they'll accept your paper log replacement)
.
[This message was edited by Shuffler on June 13, 2003 at 21:00.]

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" No one else would even come close " You certainly got that right Shuffler. Did you actually take a look at the violations. No one wants to come close. Numerous driving without a license or disqualified and lots of in possession and under the influence charges. It actually looks worse than I would have thought.
Really honestly and truly. Don't drive around them Werner trucks, you never know.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

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That site? They even SAY they're prejudice against Werner. It SAYS it contains innacurate information. It has no credibility -- just a bunch of here-say bashing and wild claims and conclusions.
Werner drives three-million miles a day. It's a huge "target" and has it's share of problem. No one's saying it doesn't. But that site is hardly an objective overview. I do think it's good reading for any newbie, as long as they take it with a grain of salt.
But on behalf of all Werner drivers, thankyou Stuffs for encouraging others to stay away from us. If fewer idiots in fast trucks cut us off or tailgated us, it sure would make life a lot easier. Aprreciate it.

Answer:
I didn't know Safer was "prejudice against Werner", or that their web site say's "it contains innacurate information." Oh yea your talking about the Werner Screws web site. It's kind of funny and very much not funny. Any way I was referring to Safestat Online "Driver OOS Inspections with Driver OOS Violations".
Honestly not what I expected and no it doesn't look good. Makes you wonder what type of people they hire and how well their qualifications are checked out.
I suppose now you'll want to argue Safestat figures and offer up some good explinations. Well have at it. It just won't change what it says. Honestly not the type of stuff you would expect from a large carrier such as Werner.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

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http://www.ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/iss.asp?ais=&DOT=53467
the safety rating speaks for itself
Vehicle OOS Inspections with Vehicle OOS Violations
302 violations since January 2003
http://www.ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/VehicleSEA.asp?ais=&DOT=53467&PageN=OOSLargeDetail#OOSDetail
-----------------------------
http://www.yellowfreightdrivers.com/article_50_paid_for_time.htm

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or that their web site say's "it contains innacurate information
--------------------------------------
Sometimes the data could not be up to date...
http://www.ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/WARNINGiii.htm
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http://www.yellowfreightdrivers.com/article_50_paid_for_time.htm

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Those Safer stastics: Compared to what or who?
Does anyone belive Werner or any other mega-carrier doesn't hre their share of problems -- or some of their drivers become unqualfied during their employment, or don't report their tickets....etc.....?
You think it's just Werner? Did you heck out the stastics for other similar-sized carriers on that site for comparison? Didn't think so.
I am glad Werner recently disabled the QualComm keyboard while the truck's moving (a few months ago). The danger of reading and sending messages while rolling was always self-evident. I hope other companys disable their units too. It's a pain not being able to communicate while driving, but it's obviously worth it. I'd be amazed if the new stastics don't show some improvement once QualComm distraction is no longer a factor. Werner should have done this years ago, instead of waiting till it was too expensive not to. It's just one of many safety trade-offs for profit and productivity, but certainly not unique to Werner. Calculating safety risk by it's cost in court, is universal in the industry. They couldn't care less about how many lives they ruin, just how much it costs. Do you honestly think any other large carriers feel any diferent?
Look, Werner is absolutely ruthless. No argument from me there. But so is their competition.
The ISS Inspection value ( http://www.ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/iss.asp?ais=&DOT=53467 ) is 74 -- just one notch into the "Inspect" recommendation, opposed to the "Optional" recommendation. Not great, but hardly the worst.
[This message was edited by Shuffler on June 13, 2003 at 22:33.]

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"Can you find another 10,000-driver newbie-company that does significently better?" I think to answer that correctly I would say,yes
Hmmm, Schneider has a 44, not to bad for the biggest carrier that is a 10,000 driver newbie company. They actually have 12,153 power units and 14,037 drivers. A newbie training company with their own school non the less. And a very good score. Something worth concidering I would think.
Schneider
Schneider overview
Swifts just a little worse but in the same catagory as Werner, imagine that.
Of course Schneider is much bigger and has a much better score. Not all training companies are alike. Newbies would be wise to do some serious checking before making a decision on where to go.
Why make excuses and justifications for poor performance? Facts do speak much louder and clearer than heresay.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

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Ok Shuffler obviously your enjoying the evening.
Their score is a 94. Better look again.
Please quit changing your wording. Your doing that Shufler shuffle again. Makes my quotes look wrong.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"