Question:
I am concerned with the seeming lack of responsibility of supposed professionals at disregarding traffic laws.
I realize some speed limit postings are bizarre, or some routings are questionable, but...
Are there that may drivers out there who are willing to put not only their own lives and equipment at risk, but other drivers on the roads as well?
I guess I am disappointed with the attitude many cdl's seem to have about being a driver. That it somehow entitles them to be above and\or beyond laws.
Some say I take having a cdl a too seriously, but, I think that when I signed that license after taking all those tests, I agreed to the responsibilities set upon a driver by the state.
Or am I the only one that believes in doing what I believe is right and not just what I can get away with?
just curious,
Neza
"I am the one who can crush you into a fine powder."

Answer:
I'm with you on this one.
But the problem is, many drivers think what they're doing IS right, even if it's illegal.
Everything in trucking, starting with logging, emplasizes creating the "illusion" of lawful compliance, or breaking the rules just a little bit. Most safety meeting emphazsize the "tickets" or "consequences" of breaking one rule or another, with too little time spent explaining WHY it just MAKES SENSE to do it properly. They'll go into great detail telling you how to adjust your slack-adjusters, but never stop to ecplain what happens when a mis-adjusted brake applies early than the rest.
I routinely drive 59-60mph through most of California and Oregon's 55-mph speed limit. It's close enough that enforcement won't bother with you, but fast enough to sqeeze 30-40 more miles out of a ten hour shift. And in fact, since absolutely EVERYONE does the same thing. Any truck maintaining a strict 55 poses a potential safety hazard as other trucks have to jockey position to pass them.
What's important is having the informed judgment to separate the little gray areas from the big ones, based on good, accurate information -- not just about the law -- but about how your truck works and what's behind many policies and rules. Many drivers treat every variation from "by the book" procedure as equal. They're not.

Answer:
I understand what you say, but I find it hard to agree with with.
When my children ( 4 yr old daughter and 2 yr old son) do not follow directions, they hear about it. Following directions ( read laws, or rules) is a very important skill. It can keep us safe, it can save us money and time and energy.
The hard part of following directions is knowing when they are good directions to follow. if a police officer tells me not to speed, I know a lot of people in my area voted to set that limit and he is only enforcing the majority concensus.
If a police officer tells me to take off my clothes ( I hope it's a she) I will tell that officer to take a flying **** at a rolling donut, because there is no way that direction is enforcing any such law ( I wouldn't think, but now with 9/11, who knows)
so when my children ( my 4 yr old can read "stop" and knows what red lights mean) see me do something that I have taught them is not the right thing to do ( ie. not following directions, rules, laws, etc)
How do I tell my children that just because I want to get someplace faster, it's ok for me to go past the sign without stopping, in good conscince?
Alas, perhaps I think too much.
Neza
"I am the one who can crush you into a fine powder."

Answer:
Well Shuffler I see your making assumptions again.
" And in fact, since absolutely EVERYONE does the same thing. "
I am very sure you have no way of backing up that statement and are just making an assumption. I've been passed by plenty of Swift and Werner drivers in 55mph states. It is amazing their mentality. The slowest trucks on the road speeding every chance they get. I even heard a Swift driver once biltching about getting a speeding ticket. A true idiot.
" Any truck maintaining a strict 55 poses a potential safety hazard as other trucks have to jockey position to pass them."
Now I know for a fact you have no way to back up that statement. Sounds like true trucker logic to me. I could make the same statement concerning those 65mph trucks running that slow in a 70 or 75 zone. That would make YOU in your Werner truck a hazard as many trucks have to "jockey position" to pass you.
Could you please show some proof and not just assumption when you jump on out with crazy statements.
Funny how a driver makes a post concerning running legal and obeying the laws and some trucker has to explain how it is ok in some circumstances and not in others to break the law. All that proves is that persons mentality and not that of professional truck drivers. Lots of people driving big trucks but very few real pro's.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"
_________________
RC Universe


Answer:
Stuffiu-
Think you're reading too much between my lines that isn't there.
What I'm saying is, there's ALWAYS some degree of subjective resasoning in critical decision making. The bottom line is always safety, however. The more you adjust your thinking to ultimate safety considerations, the more you'll probably follow the rules anyway.
But take this example and tell me what you think:
I run I-5 through California regularly. Between Sacramento and Reddingyou have trucks spaced-out in the right lane as far as the eye can see, and they're all doing the exact same 60mph on cruise control. They'll keep the same formation for hours, never passing or changing speed if they can avoid it. They're driving with the flow, at 60 in a 55 zone and law enforcement is tickeled pink. It's the safest possible way to get those trucks through the state. The fact they're traveling the same speed, out-weighs the fact they're slightly above the posted limit, since they're not changing lanes, passing, and restricting faster left-lane four wheel traffic.
I hold no grudge against trucks doing the posted 55 -- it's the posted limit. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all those other trucks have to change lanes, complete a pass, and change lanes again to get around them. When do you think most accidents happen on high-speed, multi-lane interstates?
Same's true for those going faster than the flow. They dart in and out of the right lane making frequent lane changes -- each one exposing them and others to additional risk.
By all means: Follow every rule to the letter of the law. Stop at all stop signs, never exceed the speed limit, signal every move.
But keep a critical eye out for what's really going on. California enforcement does NOT stop every vehicle going 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5 miles over a 55mph limit -- I doubt they ticket hardly any at all. The result is a "defacto' truck speed limit of apx 60mph, established by CHP's apparent tolerance policy up to 60mph on open stretches of in light traffic..
(does not apply in Ohio)
Note: Most new training material and videos also emphasize "staying with the flow of traffic". They don't say it's ok to speed, but the implication is clear. It's safest to blend-in with the flow, than restrict the flow by nailing your cruise to the exact speed limit or trying to pass every vehicle in front of you.
The bottom line is safety.
The rules, as important as they are to follow, are ultimately just means to that end.
If there's a left lane restriction, but you see a bear with a four-wheeler on the fog line ahead, you dam well better move to the left lane if it's safe to do so.
Isn't that what the bear wants you do do?
Just like they want you to drive with the flow even if it means you're a couple mph above the posted limit on central California interstate?
[This message was edited by Shuffler on May 03, 2003 at 23:45.]

Answer:
"Think you're reading too much between my lines that isn't there."
No, if you read my post you will see I quoted you exactly.
What I think is your statement is untrue and unfounded and is made up of opinion only. As one trooper told me a while back, "we can't stop them all". But they do get their share.
"When do you think most accidents happen on high-speed, multi-lane interstates?"
If it is involving a truck? I think most accidents happen when drivers choose to disobey the law and do what they think is best, trucker logic. Not when drivers are obeying the laws and driving safely.
"But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all those other trucks have to change lanes, complete a pass, and change lanes again to get around them."
It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who would be at fault.
I would simply like to see proof not just opinion.
I also feel that you must have a need to change jobs. Because you feel going slower than the flow is unsafe. You must be very afraid in most states because of your slow truck. After all, according to your logic it is unsafe, right?
" It's safest to blend-in with the flow, than restrict the flow by nailing your cruise to the exact speed limit"
I hope you plan on quitting before your slow truck kills someone.
Seems a little like double standards and double talk to me?
"By all means: Follow every rule to the letter of the law. Stop at all stop signs, never exceed the speed limit, signal every move."
Exactly, I knew you would get it right. Professionalism is much harder than going with the flow. -->
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"
_________________
RC Universe


Answer:
Funny how a driver makes a post concerning running legal and obeying the laws and some trucker has to explain how it is ok in some circumstances and not in others to break the law. All that proves is that persons mentality and not that of professional truck drivers. Lots of people driving big trucks but very few real pro's.
This driver is making absolutely too much sense.
I think he should be banned from discussion here.
-->

Answer:
jeeezzz... I'm digging my self deeper and deeper here. I'll never win with BEDSPREAD......even though he doesn't "get" what I was trying to say -- explaining how many drivers today routinely break every rule they can get away with with no thought what-so-ever to the impact on safety....something we should agree on.....
....but Stuffiu: So you think I should create even MORE opportunities to compromise overall safety by ALWAYS running below the flow of traffic, even in California?
And who's using trucker's logic here? You say you're a "pro" but you don't understand this?
The majority of truck adccidents on interstates involve rear-end collions and lane changes. That's a fact, but it should also be self-evident to any true professional. Of course I can't "blend into the traffic flow" in 75-mph zones. But what does that have to do with I-5 in central California, where I CAN improve my impact on overall safety risk to other vehicles by driving with the flow at the defacto 60mph truck speed limit?
I haven't had an accident or a moving violation in almost 30 years in ANY vehicle. I RUN to the legal letter of the law (paperless), something I'd bet my life you don't do each and every day your on the road. Rules? Tell me about rules. I follow rules more than almost everyone else around me and my record speaks for itself. Hell, I'll fax you my safety awards and DMV if you need proof. If you haven't achieved the same compliance and accident/ticket-free driving record, you might want to take some hints from those who have.
Lesson #1. Don't believe everything you hear on the CB from a Swift driver, or anyone else.
Lesson #2. Always take the safest choice, even if it means running 4mph over California's truck speed limit if it helps maintain a smooth flow of traffic. It's not just about you. It's watching out for EVERYONE elso too.
In case there's any misunderstanding, follow all the rules folks, including sometimes unwritten rules like staying with the flow of California traffic up to about 59mph, or slower than the speed limit it that what the flow is doing. Maintaining good folowing distances and avoiding lane changes is more important than 4mph above or below the speed limit. jeeeezzz.....try thinking
.
[This message was edited by Shuffler on May 04, 2003 at 1:15.]

Answer:
I haven't had an accident or a moving violation in almost 30 years in ANY vehicle. I RUN to the legal letter of the law (paperless), something I'd bet my life you don't do each and every day your on the road. Rules? Tell me about rules. I follow rules more than almost everyone else around me and my record speaks for itself.
Driver, you have already stated that you roll through stop signs. If you operate greater than the posted speed limit, you are breaking traffic law and the HOS regulations, not to mention company policy and surely the companies insurance carriers policy regarding speed most likely. If you are involved in an incident, the recorders on your vehicle can be used to hang you.
What about the driver that is on a tachograph or trip monitor that absolutely has to comply with posted speed? And there are many carriers out there like that...thank GOD.
If truck traffic is moving greater than the posted speed limit...it is they that have decide to take the chance of causing an incident. You (by agreeing and complying with their offense) are only multiplying the problem.
I am not busting your chops driver, but this type of discussion does not belong on this particular forum. It is bad enough the amount of knowledge and skills these trainees must absorb in a short time without hearing war stories of the road.

Answer:
Make Bed and the poster happy and just admit we’re ALL a bunch of dope-smoking, never sleeping, pill popping, speed demon, crashing truckdrivers that are only driving trucks so we can kill people and run down little children!
The poster is generalizing everyone into what I wrote above because he has a bur up is butt about something! Half his posts are just sweeping statements of something he doesn’t like from time to time. Since he’s afraid to do something about it or name names, he’s listed us all as nothing but a bunch of law-breaking KILLERS!
He needs to go back to his office job since he hates all truck drivers!

Answer:
Originally posted by Indiana Roadrunner:
Wish I could figure it out...
Senior Member posted April 25, 2003 23:16
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I am frustrated when I see so many people, four wheelers and truck drivers alike, just blow by a posted speed limit as if it weren't there.
My friends, whether you like it or not, and I don't care how you get paid, laws really are for everyone. Not one of us is so specil as to be above the law.
Now, you may be saying, " what a whiner.", but consider this.
Your child, nephew, granddaughtet, et al, is playing fine and nice in your yard. some putz who doesn't care what the posted is, comes blowing down the road and his ( or her) tire blows. It has happened. More than you think. car starts to skid, driver ( more often than not) panics, and slides right into your kid.
Not a pretty picture.
I don't like speed posts that seem to be to low for a given stretch of road than anyone else, BUT,
remember, if you dsagree with the posted, fine, disagree, call your state senator or city councilman, sometimes, they can be changed. soometimes there's a good reason we didnt think about.
but don't take it upon yourself to break the law.
why do we think kids learn to not care? they watch what we do.
we need to demonstrate to our kids what following rtules is about, not just say one thing and do the opposite.
or are we all little gods, each better than the other?
As professional drivers we are supposed to lead by example. Know and follow the rules of the road to the T.
If we think of ourselves as professionals, maybe we will start to act like professionals.
just my little soapbox.
Neza
"I am the one who can crush you into a fine powder."
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Posts: 41 | From: Omaha, NE USA | Registered: March 19, 2003

Answer:
nezahualcoyotl
Senior Member posted April 27, 2003 16:08
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Monty
I DO follow the rules of the road. to the letter. I learned from my mistakes in the past, well over 9 yrs ago. If you imply I don't follow other rules, I guess you'll have to inform me of those so I can amend them.
If you don't like the posted, call your elected official. It can be changed if enough people decide to.
Also, Why shouldn't I be allowed one rant in here. it seems to be the norm. Or have I been a follower and not a leader? hmmm?
Neza
"I am the one who can crush you into a fine powder."
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Posts: 41 | From: Omaha, NE USA | Registered: March 19, 2003

Answer:
nezahualcoyotl
Senior Member posted May 03, 2003 21:42
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no driving school but...
I never had the luxury of losing my money to a school, but, the 20 yr plus driver who taught me, told me that I should downshift until I hit about 4th gear, ( at that point I should be at about 20 mph or lower) then ,while still in gear < brake until I come to a complete stop.. NEVER, take stick out of gear, NEVER ride clutch longer than length of truck ( trailer not included).

I was told to always stop at all signs and lights, because it's in the best interest of all drivers on the road. If johhny 4 wheeler decides to jump a sign or beat a light, I won't be about to plow him or her into tommorrow.
The most important thing he taught me was that a a cdl a holder, getting that big truck where I need to be isn't the most important part of my job, safety for all those I share the road with is equal or more important.
taking shorcuts won't help if I'm stopped because I killed somebody.

Neza
just my two cents.
"I am the one who can crush you into a fine powder."
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Posts: 41 | From: Omaha, NE USA | Registered: March 19, 2003

Answer:
Mr nezahualcoyotl says he's following the law to the letter. Which is good!
However, why the last month has he decided he's the only one that isn't "a bunch of dope-smoking, never sleeping, pill popping, speed demon, crashing truckdrivers that are only driving trucks so we can kill people and run down little children!"
Sorry!
I never understood people who generalize when they post something!