Question:
With only a few days of school left, our regular driving instructor missed a day and we got a substitute instructor for the day. As I was driving we approached a red light. In my usual way, I gradually downshifted as I approached the intersection. I don't downshift all the way down, just to 6th or maybe 5th before rolling to a stop ( 10 speed eaton fuller ). I figure if the light turns green as I approach I'm already in the right gear to accelerate through the intersection or make the turn. The instructor freaked out and had a major problem with this practice. He insisted I leave the tranny in what ever gear it was in approching the red light ( say, 8th ). Then braking to a stop. When the engine ( still in 8th gear ) started lugging ( under 1000 rpm ) he said to push in the clutch to keep from stalling, then continue braking to a stop. Basically, it stays in 8th gear all the way to a stop. He said my method gives poor fuel economy and is hard on the transmission. Mind you, I don't cause any over-reving during the downshift...just a smooth gear change when it's ready ( and no grinding ).
I know this question seems a little silly and I wouldn't even ask but for the extreme reaction and lecture I got from the instructor ( he usually teaches only in the classroom ). So what's the deal? Or is it really a deal at all and more of a matter of preference?
Thanks
Tony

Answer:
When i was in school last year,When approaching a stop sign/light,they wanted me to downshift,it was a 10 speed eaton fuller,I believe i came down to about5th gear,Seeing a stale green light,i would approach it slowly expecting to stop,if i had to suddenly stop since i am driving slowly i could take it out of gear and just stop.They taught us to skip gears,but diddn't want us doing that on the road test.

Answer:
to down shift as much as possible when coming to a stop. I was told it provides better control and over all less wear and tear on the vehicle than simply braking to a stop. It also allows you to apply power in an emergency situation if needed.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
Answer:
When I was in drving school, they taught us to downshift to a stop.(not all the way)
however....
The owner of the trk I currently drv does NOT like it when I downshift to a stop.(that's the same thing he tells me about turning some corners.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember back when I used to drv team....
My co-drvr used to get on to me for shifting Down to the lowside when approaching a Traffic Light.
He said that if the light were to turn GREEN before I reached the light ...all I would have to do is ....GO & would not have to upshift.
Sometimes I still might accidently downshift to the LOW side BEFORE I get to the light....
When that happens...
I smile & think to myself....
I can hear "Ted" now...."Don't shift to the low side yet, you don't know if the light is going to turn Green."

Answer:
Tony,
You were correct in downshifting.
Tell that Trainer/Instructor to contact me if he likes.
I've only been doing this for 43 years.
[Pipeman]
[I Thought I had made a mistake until I realized it was just an error.]KEEP YOUR DOLLY CRANK SECURED AND HAVE YOURSELVES A GOOD RIDE !!!!!

Answer:
Well actually (I like being a little different ) Except for making it easier if the light should change, a skill easily learned in other ways, I can't really think of a good reason to down shift. Braking is not the design of the transmission. I've thought about it and can't really figure out what type of control it gives you. You will need to learn how to drop from 10th to very low gears quickly. You can't always take the time to downshift in traffic. Stopping is a good skill to learn also.
Although in time, very quickly actually, downshifting will come to you. Right now though you are getting ready to take a state skills test. The only thing it can do for you at that point is give you the opportunity to mess up some more. We were taught how to downshift in the school I attended and advised to do as little shifting as possible on the test. I would give you the same advice here.
The one real advantage to down shifting is the jake brake. You can make those stacks roar when stopping. But please don't do it in truck stop parking lots until you've become a full fledged Billy-Big-Rigger. Actually just don't do it there at all.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

Answer:
Originally posted by Stuffiu:
Well actually (I like being a little different ) Except for making it easier if the light should change, a skill easily learned in other ways, I can't really think of a good reason to down shift. Braking is not the design of the transmission. I've thought about it and can't really figure out what type of control it gives you. You will need to learn how to drop from 10th to very low gears quickly. You can't always take the time to downshift in traffic. Stopping is a good skill to learn also.
For one there is the basic principle of "Save Your Brakes". By utilizing good down shifting techniques you save wear and tear on the braking system. Even though down shifting will not stop you, the braking effect of the engine will slow the vehicle and therefore lessen the amount of work the brakes have to do. Same principle really as down shifting before going down a hill.
Another reason is one I have already stated. Safety. By attempting to be in the correct gear at all times, or as close to it as possible (within 1 or 2 gears when slowing down) you maintain better control of the truck, are more prepared for changes in traffic, etc.
And Stuffs if you want to see what the control is all about find yourself someplace to try this. Be sure you are under load. Travel at about 35 mph (8th gear on a 10 speed) and slow to 5 mph without downshifting. When you hit 5 mph let off the clutch and try to make a manuever.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
Answer:
Just shift the way "they" (meaning instructors) tell you---make them happy; and then when you pass and get in your own truck...shift the way you want.
When I went to trucking school (long time ago), the instructor was right up front about this kind of thing.
He said, "when you get your own truck drive how you feel most comfortable (i.e.-hand on shifter, hand at bottom of steering wheel, double clutch -vs- float etc...), but right now I want you to do what I say, and you will please the 3rd. party tester"
If you get confused, because each instructor has their own method---explain to them that "so-and-so" likes you to do it this way; and ask them how they like to see it done.
Biggest concern is to pass. Make them happy, and you will do just that.
_________________________
Cover Your Cans People!!!It's apparent this place is never going to change....then again; why should it? It gets the clientel it deserves.
Bette Midler

Answer:
In my state the DMV requires that you downshift at least two gears before coming to a complete stop, if you have to come to a stop - They don't care if you time a light as long as you do it safely. But you can not coast - no gear caught - longer than a cab length!
Me I like to squeeze it down to about 10 - 15 mph and then catch 5th or 6th, and if I have to stop I grab 2nd at 4 or 5 mph before stopping.
Rowdy
Pumpkin Drivers Rule!!

Answer:
Try going to the owner or manager of the school (if still a student) and tell him about this little quandry. Tell him that you have got two instructors teaching to different ways to drive and it is confusing to you being a new driver.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
Answer:
Every company driving test I have ever taken I was evaluated on my ability to slow the vehicle using methods other than braking or using only the brakes.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
Answer:
"And Stuffs if you want to see what the control is all about find yourself someplace to try this. Be sure you are under load. Travel at about 35 mph (8th gear on a 10 speed) and slow to 5 mph without downshifting. When you hit 5 mph let off the clutch and try to make a manuever." Thats a really poor test or example since I do just that everyday. You've been out of the truck to long. Try and remember traffic, heavy traffic. Everyone takes off as fast as they can then stops as fast as they can. Often if you fool around with shifting you'll be in trouble.
Reading what was said is important. "You will need to learn how to drop from 10th to very low gears quickly." it happens often going from 10th or 8th straight to 4th or 5th. You need to know how to do it. Specially when some nut cuts you off and hits his brake to turn. Stopping at that point is important shifting isn't. That will happen often also.
Saving the brakes and straining the transmission, that makes sense. "The owner of the trk I currently drv does NOT like it when I downshift to a stop.(that's the same thing he tells me about turning some corners.)" I wonder why Choclit's boss doesn't like all that shifting. I guess if you really feel a need to save the brake system you also need to keep those jakes on.
Shifting on a down hill and stopping at a light is 2 diff. things. I'm sure you know that though. Control of your vehicle is alot more than braking. Things like proper speed, following distance, maintaining lane control, being aware of all the traffic around you ,pedestrians, parked vehicles etc. etc. all make up control of your vehicle. Downshifting to a stop plays a small part in it if any. Stopping is more important than shifting. I've seen and had newbies in my truck trying to do all that shifting when stopping. For no reason except to scare me I think. When your new your mind has alot to try and take in. It can get confusing to newbies. You may have been number one in your school but when reality hits it becomes a different game. STOPPING is what you need to worry about.
New drivers at training companies from my experience are rarely tested on their ability to down shift to a stop. Experienced drivers almost always are. Remember this is the newbies not the super trucker forum. It is expected that your trainer will teach that to you. Control and general knowledge is what most look for. For the most part the state skills test will be 10 times harder than the driving test is for newbies at most companies.
White dog has it right, "He said, "when you get your own truck drive how you feel most comfortable (i.e.-hand on shifter, hand at bottom of steering wheel, double clutch -vs- float etc...)" also "Biggest concern is to pass. Make them happy, and you will do just that."Remember these are newbies alot of whom need to pass their skills test. It needs to be as easy as possible.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"

Answer:
for all the replies. I think I'll keep on downshifting a couple of gears for now. I take my state test on tuesday.
Tony

Answer:
The instructor freaked out and had a major problem with this practice. He insisted I leave the tranny in what ever gear it was in approching the red light ( say, 8th ). Then braking to a stop. When the engine ( still in 8th gear ) started lugging ( under 1000 rpm ) he said to push in the clutch to keep from stalling, then continue braking to a stop. Basically, it stays in 8th gear all the way to a stop. He said my method gives poor fuel economy and is hard on the transmission.
In a way he is correct, in another way he is wrong. He has learned to operate the vehicle for fuel economy and for smoothness (consideration for second driver in sleeper say).
The method a driver should use to come to a stop for a light is to just let her drift down, and once she starts to buck, you knock it into neutral until coming to a complete or rolling stop (hitting a lower gear and continuing on). This is the way major fleets teach for fuel economy and less wear and tear on the vehicle.
But...you knock one out of gear on a company or MVA road test and you will fail because regulations specifically say not to operate out of gear.
As mentioned, you should speak to the head instructor and explain your experience to him, and he will decide how to correct the instructor, and how you are to operate the equipment until you pass your road test.. It is all a matter of how a student is taught.
He/she/it/mutant should be skilled in up-shifting and down shifting in all conditions, and following the shift pattern is acceptable to a student that hasn't gained the skills necessary to say pick up fifth gear in a rolling vehicle. You will be taught and learn those skills as you go along.
Same as entering an off ramp or preparing for a turn...let the vehicle coast down (scuff if necessary for short ramp), start to negotiate the turn and once comfortable, reach down and grab the correct gear to continue on.
BUT FOR NOW...YOU DO AS THE LEAD INSTRUCTOR TELLS YOU TO DO AS HE IS PREPARING YOU FOR YOUR MVA ROAD TEST.
As for the continual downshifting, it is mute as a late CMV has very little retard action as did older ones. It is much simpler to be able to skip a few gears and contiune on.

Answer:
This is one of those popular 'gray area" discussions -- love it.
As a student, you just gotta do what you're told for now.
The only universal rule is:
you must always remain in gear while the truck's moving. You may hold the clutch down while you brake to a stop, but the stick position must ramain "in-gear". Never pull the stick out of gear while rolling to a stop, unless it's to change gears.
You must never take longer than apx three seconds to change gears. If you can't match rpms in three seconds, you probably aren't yet skilled enough to pass a driving test.
Rolling to a stop in eight (10-speed) sounds about right in the real world. But instructors, trainers and testers want to make sure you can downshift every gear to a complete stop, since it demonstrates your overall shifting competance.
I stay away from excessive downshifting when coming to a stop, (unless it's down hill off a steep mountain pass with a heavy load that could over-heat the service brakes unless I use the jakes most of the way)
Remember -- every time you down shift, you have to lift your foot off the brake pedal. If a sudden emergency comes up, you may be better off with a light brake pressure already in affect, rather than having to move your foot and jam the brakes, and then waiting an additional one second for the valves to open and actually start braking.
So once you're on your own, I'd suggest shifting down to eighth (10 speed), then pushing in the clutch just before it starts to lug (apx 30mph), and roll to a stop with just the service brakes.
Don't touch the stick till you're ready to select your start-up gear.
One more tip -- never touch the stick or rest your hand in it until you're ready to use it. Both hands on the wheel unless you're actually using the stick.
.
[This message was edited by Shuffler on May 02, 2003 at 19:50.]