Question:
Allthough I have been driving for about 15 years on and off, I have run into this new company I have just started for and have got me all twisted around concerning "allowable hours" I have always gone on the 60hour rule, and have always been fine, but always was just driving, now i am listed as a driver/laboror, and they are telling if I work monday - thursday = 60 hours , 38 driving + 22 on-duty not driving (labor) that on friday i can still come in and work anther 15 as long as i do not drive, the way he explained it, it all sounded right but it sure does not feel right, exspecially haulling HM (HI-EX)..... any thoughts??/
"Did I do that?"

Answer:
Although, I'm Not familiar with the 60hr schedule(I'm used to dealing with the 70hr rule/schedule)....
about all I can do is give you this link http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/factsfigs/Log.htm
It won't be long before someone on this forum will come by & inform BOTH of us.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Answer:
are the same except for one differnce.
60 hours in 7 days total allowable on duty and drive time.
70 hours in 8 days total allowable on duty and drive time.
The rule states that once a driver reaches his maximum number of hours in the 6 or 7 day period that driver may not operate a commercial vehicle until the driver has regained sufficient hours to do so.
A driver may continue to work (perform on duty not driving tasks) indefinately but may not drive until the total hours drops below the maximum allowed depending on how that drivers company operates.
Determining if a company can operate under the 60 or 70 hours rule:
If a company operates 7 days per week, 24 hours per day then the company may operate under the 70 hour rule.
If a company operates 6 or fewer days per week then the company is to operate under the 60 hour rule.
I hope this clears it up for you.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
_________________
"If men were angels...No government would be necessary."
51st Federalist Papers
"Nichols' Fourth Law says, "Avoid any action with an unacceptable outcome"

Answer:
Ahem, I spoke incorrectly:
Driving time cannot exceed 60 hours in 7 consecutive days.
On-duty while driving time cannot exceed 60 hours in 7 consecutive days.
There is an exception for carriers that primarily transport construction equipment:
§395.1 Scope of rules in this part.
(m) Construction materials and equipment. In the instance of a driver of a commercial motor vehicle who is used primarily in the transportation of construction materials and equipment, any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 24 or more successive hours.
§395.2 Definitions.
Transportation of construction materials and equipment means the transportation of construction and pavement materials, construction equipment, and construction maintenance vehicles, by a driver to or from an active construction site (a construction site between mobilization of equipment and materials to the site to the final completion of the construction project) within a 50 air mile radius of the normal work reporting location of the driver. This paragraph does not apply to the transportation of material found by the Secretary to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations issued to carry out such section.
Twenty four hour period means any 24 consecutive hour period beginning at the time designated by the motor carrier for the terminal from which the driver is normally dispatched.
So other questions now pop up. Do you transport the HE or do you just handle it? If you transport the HE and you did not exceed the 50 air-mile radius you couldn't use the exemption as placarded load don't qualify. I'm guessing Divison 1.1 or 1.2 so that's table 1 material so you have to placard any amount of HE transported.
John Q.
Disclaimer: The views posted are those of the author. The accuracy of the rules posted are subject to the status of rules and regulations posted by the GPO and other Government Agencies. The author accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies of any posted regulation or interpretation. Readers should seek legal counsel for all legal issues.
_________________
John Q.
"If men were angels...No government would be necessary."
51st Federalist Papers
"Nichols' Fourth Law says, "Avoid any action with an unacceptable outcome"

Answer:
You're absolutely right, John. I don't work those kind of hours, that's why I can catch up over the weekend.
However, if he works on the dock for a half day, he will be eligable to drive the other half. 7 and a half hours on the dock drops him to 52 and a half hours and the other 7 and a half brings him back to the 60.
I'm sure his boss doesn't figure it that way and wants him out there driving but that is the legal way.
Fourdave needs to be careful how he works it. No employer is worth going to jail for. Especially the way national security is with Hazmat loads today. I average one inspection every two weeks. Placarded vehicles are always targeted but now it's like running with a neon sign...stop me and check it out.
Real drivers haul hazmat
Keep it between the lines
The Jokester
Joketown Forum
So funny you'll **** your pants


Answer:
However, if he works on the dock for a half day, he will be eligable to drive the other half. 7 and a half hours on the dock drops him to 52 and a half hours and the other 7 and a half brings him back to the 60.
Hate to disagree, but unless Fourdave takes three days off he will not be able to drive:
I work monday - thursday = 60 hours , 38 driving + 22 on-duty not driving (labor) that on friday i can still come in and work anther 15 as long as i do not drive
Mon 15 + Tues 15 + Wed 15 + Thur 15 + Fri 15 + Sat 0 + Sun 0 = 75 hours in seven consecutive days. No problem because the driver never drove after 60 hours.
Now shift one day:
Tues 15 + Wed 15 + Thur 15 + Fri 15 + Sat 0 + Sun 0 = 60 hours on Monday morning the driver CAN NOT drive. He can work but he can not drive. If the driver works the dock on Monday for 15 hours he again has 75 hours in 7 consecutive days.
Now shift a day:
Wed 15 + Thur 15 + Fri 15 + Sat 0 + Sun 0 + Mon 15 = 60 hours on Tuesday morning. Again the driver CAN NOT drive.
The driver will always be able to work the dock but he will never be able to drive.
If the driver's day was cut back to 12 hours there would always be 12 hours to work. 12 X 5 = 60 hours so with 2 days off each week the driver's hours would never exceed 60 hours.
Also keep in mind for local drivers they cannot exceed 12 hours from the time they start until the time they quit to not fill out a log. If a 100 air mile radius driver works more works more than 12 hours the driver MUST fill out a log:
§ 395.1 Scope of rules in this part.
(e) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of § 395.8 if:
(e)(1) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;
(e)(2) The driver, except a driver salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;
(e)(3) At least 8 consecutive hours off duty separate each 12 hours on duty;
(e)(4) The driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and,
(e)(5) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:
(e)(5)(i) The time the driver reports for duty each day;
(e)(5)(ii) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;
(e)(5)(iii) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and
(e)(5)(iv) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with § 395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.
As soon as any one of the conditions are not met a driver must fill out a log.
John Q.
Disclaimer: The views posted are those of the author. The accuracy of the rules posted are subject to the status of rules and regulations posted by the GPO and other Government Agencies. The author accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies of any posted regulation or interpretation. Readers should seek legal counsel for all legal issues.
[This message was edited by John Q. Public on March 30, 2003 at 13:05.]
_________________
John Q.
"If men were angels...No government would be necessary."
51st Federalist Papers
"Nichols' Fourth Law says, "Avoid any action with an unacceptable outcome"

Answer:
thanks for all your advice and legal concerns
No they are not worth going to jail over, I am looking to get into anther job, I worked 73 hours that week, and this week they had me out just as a laboror and gave me a half day off thurs and friday, by monday I will be back to having approx 20hrs available again and the guy who drove this week will be my laboror next week, and yes its transporting and using HE 1.1 1.4 and 1.5 usally in combined totals of 20,000+ at a time, I did want the "Home every night" and was willing to take a huge paycut for it ($500 salery weekly) but this is to much -->
any know of a good driving job in south chicago area with no overnights -->
Dave
"Did I do that?"

Answer:
Fourdave, I believe you and/or your employer is figuring the HOS wrong. There is no way you can work 73 hours in 5 days and have hours to drive on Monday.
Oh well, live and learn. I wish you well and hope you don't have an accident as from the sounds of it you, the laborer and who ever else is involved could perish. The liability you are opening yourself up to by violating the HOS is tremendous. You could loose every thing you have through civil court.
Remeber that couple that about 5 years ago drug a Honda Civic with a blown tire through Idaho and set several thousands of acres of forest on fire? I believe they sold everything they owned and paid Idaho over $1,000,000 in damages...Idaho wanted $5,000,000. I never heard how the couple settled.
When you violate the HOS and are transporting HE I don't think it would be a tough case to prove you are an immenet hazard to the public and any accident in the course of the work day indicates a disregard of public safety.
Again, you cannot drive after having been ON-DUTY for 60 hours in 7 consecutive days.
Be safe.
John Q.
Mothers all want their sons to grow up to be President, but they don't want them to become politicians in the process.
John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
_________________
John Q.
"If men were angels...No government would be necessary."
51st Federalist Papers
"Nichols' Fourth Law says, "Avoid any action with an unacceptable outcome"

Answer:
Seeing that Spring is almost here, I'd try
Prairie Material in Bridgeview they have yards allover the area. If you're drug free there's tons of jobs available in the Chicago area.
Try working casual at one of the Carriers in the "Heights".
Mike
_________________
Mike

Answer:
Maybe i misspoke
oh and thanks Mike for the suggestions, maybe in 2 weeks (seams to be there cylce ) i will run out of hours and be able to take time to puit out some more apps -->
Dave
"Did I do that?"

Answer:
For the record, when you used the driver's daily log did you use the 60-hour rule or the 70-hour rule?
03/24 = 15
03/25 = 15
03/26 = 15
03/27 = 15
03/28 = 13
03/29 = 0
03/30 = 0
Week ending 03/30 = 73 hours in 7 consecutive days.
Now we are going to keep the 7-day cycle running.
03/25 = 15
03/26 = 15
03/27 = 15
03/28 = 13
03/29 = 0
03/30 = 0 = 58 hours in 6 consecutive days. On 03/31/2003 you could drive for 2 hours before you could no longer drive. If you worked the dock for 2 hours on 03/31/2003 then you have 0 that's ZERO hours to DRIVE
Now let's change nd go to the 70-hour rule:
03/24 = 15
03/25 = 15
03/26 = 15
03/27 = 15
03/28 = 13
03/29 = 0
03/30 = 0
03/31 = 15 = 73 hours in 8 consecutive days. When you reported to work on 03/31/2003 you could drive for 12 hours before you went into violation.
The thing to remember is that if your company doesn't operate 7 days a week...Then they MUST use the 60-Hour rule.
Interpretations
§395.3 Maximum Driving and On-duty Time
Question 1: May a motor carrier switch from a 60-hour/7-day limit to a 70-hour/8-day limit or vice versa?
Guidance: Yes. The only restriction regarding the use of the 70- hour/8-day rule is that the motor carrier must have CMVs operating every day of the week. The 70-hour/8-day rule is a permissive provision in that a motor carrier with vehicles operating every day of the week is not required to use the 70-hour/8-day rules for calculating its drivers' hours of service. The motor carrier may, however, assign some or all of its drivers to operate under the 70-hour/8-day rule if it so chooses. The assignment of individual drivers to the 60-hour/7- day or the 70-hour/8-day time rule is left to the discretion of the motor carrier.
Interpretations for Maximum Allowable Driving Time.
Give me a call I'm in the book under US DOT in Channahon, IL.
John Q.
Mothers all want their sons to grow up to be President, but they don't want them to become politicians in the process.
John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
_________________
John Q.
"If men were angels...No government would be necessary."
51st Federalist Papers
"Nichols' Fourth Law says, "Avoid any action with an unacceptable outcome"

Answer:
Thnaks John Q, I printed your last reply and will bring it in with me and ( bypass my location manager ) talk to safty and complaince directly, from what others have told me there if i call them they are pretty good about investagating it with out using a name ( don't want the s**t work for the summer --> ) will see, worked 12 today and tomorrow will be longer -->, I am so tired,
Dave
"Did I do that?"