Question:
I have been reading your posts for a long time, and noted with interest your comment about learning to drive a truck without going to school. I agree that it can be done, because I did it 30 years ago pulling a flatbed around the eastern US for a company called Moon Freight Lines. However, I learned a few lessons the hard way, like not to take a ramp at the posted speed and not to touch the trailer brake handle, and not to pick the wrong gear coming off a long grade. ...In any case, I would be interested in knowing your thoughts, if you care to share them, because I intend to go back to driving at the end of this year.....My e-mail address, if you want it, is michael_baechle2000@yahoo.com.

Answer:
I forgot to add this to my prior post: I have the inpression, perhaps incorrect, that you are an 0/0. Unless I am confusing you with someone else, I have been impressed with your attitude. It appears to me that you have found a way to be successful as an 0/0. I have figured out to my own satisfaction that even with a used tractor, I cannot make enough as an 0/0 at 84 cents per mile to justify the risk; it seems to come out at or below what I could make as a company driver...I would like to have your thoughts re the keys to success as an 0/0.

Answer:
Want to post this over on the Round table as IRR is over there a lot more than in this forum....or at least seems to be.
Only two things I know of are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I am not real sure about the universe.
_________________


Answer:
dunnromin,
"Moon Freight Lines"
Cool! Companies from the past!
1st: I was an O/O 9 of my 24 or 25 years in trucking.
Gee how many years...
44-19 + 6 months playing sales man = about 25 years
I've been a company driver for the past 11 years now, the past 10 with the same company. (Makes it easy to go back 10 years on a resume).
Not sure what you are wanting to know, so just post some more questions and I and the others can help you.
So how long have you been out of trucking now? Have you been trying to apply for trucking jobs?
If you have, were you turned down and why?
As far as learning, common sense and a good head on your shoulders will get you through most trucking situations. Problem is we live in a world where common sense is non-existent these days! But you're old enough to know what I mean by common sense. These young whippersnappers out here now days get insulted when you use the term "common sense" when it comes to trucking.
As you've noticed, TruckNet is a pretty good source of info as far as refreshing yourself on what it's like in the real world of trucking.
As far as being an owner-operator, unless you got something really great lined up, I would stay a long way away from it. With the price of fuel, insurance, and everything else you can be in the poor house in a matter of months. When I was an owner-operator I did everything wrong! So if you want to know how to do it wrong, just ask. I was one of the dwellers that was only concerned about power, speed, chrome and chicken lights.
My present job takes care of all my old owner-operator lusts. But not the high-speed part. I have lights, chrome, and power. And 75 m.p.h. is not bad for a company truck. And they pay me fair. And I usually do what I darn well feel like anyway. Since I work hard and make them some money and help them when they're in a pinch or when some other driver lets them down, they pretty well let me get away with my idiosyncrasies!
So where do you live at and what are your aspirations?
Fire away a few questions and us legends will see if we can help you out.

Answer:
Good to hear from you. I do have some questions for you that are very important to me. But first, I will answer your questions.
I drove OTR for Moon Freight Lines twice, during interruptions in my college career. It WAS a cool company, but a rough life. I averaged 4 hours of sleep per night over the course of 5 days out, but sometimes got none at all. One run was from Bloomington, IN to Atlanta, then on to Sylacausga AL, picking up a load for NYC, then on to Vermont, and back to CHI in 5 days. I don't know howe many miles that was, but I do remember running from Sylacauga to NYC (the Bronx), unloading, and being enroute to Vermont when the engine quit, and having had no sleep for 46 hours. My last load was from Cincinnati to Pikeville KY; coming off a grade too fast, I applied the trailer brake, jacknifed partially, but managed to outrun the trailer before it came around completely; in the process, the trailer tandems hit a telephone pole carrying all of the switching electronics for the Clinchfield railroad, picked the pole off like a blade of grass, and blew both outside trailer tires. I had to take the tires of and chain the axle up. Another night with no sleep, overtired, made a dumb mistake....I knew that I wasn't cut out for the job at that point because I just could not get enough rest and make the delivery schedules with a tractor that topped out at 52 mph on flat ground (and I don't remember ever being on any truly flat ground)....
After that, I started driving a semi for Roadway, Holland, and Associated Truck Lines, but just in the summer, and just in the city. I was doing this because I like it, and could make money for college faster that way than any other way.
I was still driving part-time when I graduated from law school in 1977, but haven't driven since.
I have been a trial lawyer since 1977. The last 10 years have been focussed primarily on defending doctors in medical malpractice cases. I am about to lose my principle client due to a merger, and after December 31 of this year, will not have enough of a cash flow to keep my office open.
My children are almost done with college, I am divorced and not romantically encumbered, and it is feasible for me to do what I want to do. Not because I have any money saved, but because I have no debt except my vehichle payment.
As I look back over my working life, which started when I was 18 (I am 58 now) I can identify the jobs I liked best, and what they had in common: I was a crew member on C-130's and C-124's in the Air Force, and I drove a truck, and I liked both of those jobs a hell of a lot more than I have ever liked being cooped up in an office. And, I am here to tell anyone who cares to listen that, after your basic needs are met, how much money you make is not enough to compensate for working a job that you don't like.
Bottom line: I intend to close my office in Jan 2004 (10 short months away) if not sooner, and go to Schneider or Werner to learn the ropes again, for a year or two.
What I would like to do after that is to find a good carrier in Indiana to work for, so I can stay in touch with my family here in Indiana. I don't have to be home often, as long as I could have 48-72 continuous hours off at least once per month.
Could you offer any suggestions as to where I might look for such a position?
Thanks also for you warning about being an 0/0. I rea;lize that my real motive for even thinking about it is so I can have the power, chrome and lights. I know I can't make a living that way.
After that, what I would like to do is

Answer:
Werner would be a good choice. I did a year and a half with them, got my experience and now have a great local job here in Arizona.
I really appreciate your comment about not needing so much money. No one "needs" as much money as we chase here in America.
You are well-located to get time off, living in Indiana. My experience with Werner left me feeling like they are a huge, impersonal but ethical and well-run company. I made $37K first year, no prior experience. Safe equipment and the paperless log is the way to go. You will run legal and safely. You can live quite well in your truck, once you get it figured out--"it" being how to do the OTR thing.
Ain't it all about expectations?
May you be well and happy!

Answer:
What I would like to do after that is to find a good carrier in Indiana to work for, so I can stay in touch with my family here in Indiana. I don't have to be home often, as long as I could have 48-72 continuous hours off at least once per month.
Could you offer any suggestions as to where I might look for such a position?
Get a year back under your belt and you can come talk to my company!
We're furniture haulers and you have to "assist" with the unloading!
Actually, it’s easier then it sounds.
The furniture is all cartooned.
Most of the time, you just unstack the cartons and the receiving guys will roll it out with two wheelers.
Officially, we’re to push or roll it to the tailgate.
The receiver is responsible after that!
However, most of the companies we deliver to, we see every week. Therefore, they’re more like friends (or partners) to us drivers. So we all work together (driver and receiver) and do it as quickly and easily as possible!
Sometimes if they’re busy, you may set it on a dock for them. Other times you get out of the way and they do it all! (Usually, everybody busy and I’m in a hurry, so I help anyway I can so I can go on to my next stop!) Receivers, soon learn who understands their problems and understands what it’s like to have dozens of LTL trucks show up everyday. So many places we are called inhouse trucks and get a dock without waiting, unload and leave. While other drivers are walking around calling their companies and calling people names!
You see most of our loads are LTL (Less then truckload) so you don’t play games and remain friendly and get your stops off.
Since the pay is good. More stops more pay and back home, you go! I made $66,000 last years and slept at home at least 3 nights a week last year!
Nice trucks and people who (most of the time) do try to understand what it’s like to be a driver, does help too!
Now as for as other companies….
Most around here are furniture haulers.
However, a friend of mine is a part owner of a company by the name of “Smith’.
They do all no touch loads and are home at least once during the week and every weekend! Pay is in the middle $40,000 range, with good benefits and nice Volvo trucks.
As for as others. The big boys can be found here on TruckNet.
The smaller ones, I can let you know as I see them! Since we have the time!
Now Moon Truck Lines>>>>>>
I remember those old Transtars with the tired looking drivers.
Many old-timers around here worked for them sometime in their life.
Most didn’t have much nice to say about them either.
Nevertheless, said the pay was ok and the trucks were way underpowered and slow!! -->
**************************
Indiana RoadRunner
A legend in his own mind! To soon old.
To late smart.

Answer:
Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.
As to Werner, I like the idea of paperless logs; from various posts I have read, including yours, Erik (I think) I seem to recall that Werner has everything operating very smoothly as regards optimization of driver time; and that is important esp when you are tired, I recall.
As to money, let me only say this: I have made the same mistakes many Americans make: I tried to buy it all, and then worked myself ragged to pay for it. And, when I lost $100,000 one year, I couldn't make the payments, and wound up divorced and bankrupt, with $400,000 in liabilities after the bankruptcy (secured debt). I have spent the last 7 years paying that off, and am just about done. Now, I live in an apartment, use a debit card instead of credit cards, and have cut out all of the fat from my business, so that I make as much money working a third of the time as before. And I am a heck of a lot happier and less stressed. By the same token, I know a millionaire who doesn't think she has enough money, and is lonely and bored. So, I tell my kids: don't borrow for anything but an education, and pay that off before you buy something else.
Indiana /Roadrunner, your company sounds like the kind of place I would like to be. Actually, I could put money in the bank if I made $42,000 a year, and $60,000 plus would have me socking it away so fast some babe at the bank would probably try to marry me for my loot.
As to Moon Freight Lines, I imagine there are a lot of old guys around that drove for them. It was a hardnosed outfit, but fair. If you could pass a road test, you got the keys to a tractor and a load, and after that, you lived like a dog. I remember one guy who I thought was in his 60's and it turned out he was only 35.
The owner alledgedly acquired the company by murdering the previous owner. The general manager was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, a little fireplug of a guy who has been known to whip drivers who felt the need to fight. One guy who drove for Moon while I was there (I won't mention his name, because he may still be living), carried a sawed-off shotgun in his truck, and was seen by another Moon driver blowing a guy off the side of his tractor when the guy tried to get in the truck at a stoplight in New York City. Another guy, who I did not know, knocked a guy's head off with a cheater pipe when the guy was trying to steal a spare tire from under his trailer.
I was working there when some strikers at a local plant decided to warn Moon not to drive through the picket line; they put half a stick of dynamite upside the building and blew a crack from foundation to roof; it would have blown any other building away, but Moon's office was built of blocks of quarry stone probably 8 inches thick. Moon didn't stop crosssing the picket lines.
The tractors were 238 Detroits, and four 318's when I drove, but they later went to only 318's when they bought those Internationals. However, those engines were derated to something like 270 or 290, and they were geared low because they had to handle heavy loads and run in a lot of hills. Since I was just an extra driver, I got the oldest, most crapped-out tractor on the lot. It was so slow, the drivers jokeingly called it "Whitewind". Even the best tractors, however, were governed at 62mph.
I once heard of a saying scrawled on the restroom wall of a hillbilly bar in Bloomington: "Working for Moon Freight Lines is like f***ing sheep; it's not so bad, but you don't want anyone to know you've been doing it". Actually, I have always been proud of working there. It was an interesting experience, with a lot of interesting guys. I could tell you a couple of more stories, if you are interested.
Indiana, I will stay in touch, get your thoughts re Indiana companies after a year of OTR with someone.
Stay safe out there, gentlemen, and thanks for the posts.

Answer:
I could tell you a couple of more stories, if you are interested.
Sure!
Trucking stories are always fun. In addition, the Newbies that read these pages may learn a thing or two!
Trucks these days have more power and people don't fight like they used too.
These youngsters these days whine so much about drivers and people not getting along! If they only knew what it was like just 20 years ago when the men were men and they all broke a nose or two!!
Also, these outlaw companies (most were, years ago, one way or another!). Were the norm and were always good for a few stories!
I remember when a truck strike was something real!
I remember when I worked for a trucking company in High School in the 70’s. And seeing trucks come in with bullet holes in them! Now that’s what happens when you have a real strike. People break things and drivers carried guns!
Heck!
Years ago, 95% of all drivers carried a gun!
All were trained to protect themselves with the tire club too!!
I remember one driver who was so tired one night. When a lowlife was trying to steal his trailer tires. He first warned the guy and later when the bum came back. Stuck his gun out the window shot him and went back to bed. Next day the storeowner where he was delivering at, woke him and asked, if he knew there was a dead guy beside his trailer! Driver rubbed his eyes and said he thought he heard some guys arguing. Cops came, and saw who the dead guy was, and said they need to thank whoever shot him and went on their way!
That was back in the days when lowlifes didn’t have more rights then the law abiding people!
One Saturday morning, I went to start fueling trucks and jumped in the first one. Little did I know the driver (A rather large mean as$ Mexican) was sleeping in the sleeper. As soon as the door shut, I had a 12 inches knife in front of my throat. He said something that I didn’t understand. I I I I I I ………….. just said I’m the fuel jockey and I’m going to fuel and wash your truck!!!!!!!!
When he pulled the knife back in the sleeper. I opened the door AND RAN LIKE HELL!!! I ran in the shop and told Ronnie (The shop foreman) that there’s a guy in truck #*** and he put a large knife to my throat!!
Well Ronnie call Bob Sanders (the company owner) and he came out and chewed the drivers butt out!
After that, I always made damn sure there wasn’t anyone in the sleeper before I got behind the wheel!!
Maybe latter I tell how I jacked-knifed my first and only truck at 5 m.p.h. at age 16. Or the time a drunk truck driver almost fell out of my wrecker in downtown Jasper Indiana! (I was 17 years old then!)
*****************************
Indiana RoadRunner
A legend in his own mind!
To old to suffer fools. To young to get away with it!
To soon old, to late smart!

Answer:
IRR
You are right about the old days. Life was a lot more interesting back then.
For some reason, it seems like I have come in at the tail end of everything good career-wise. When I was flying in the USAF, I was on the last big piston-engine plane, flew low and slow and had to stop at every island crossing the Pacific or the Atlantic (it seemed) for fuel and crew rest. So, I saw a lot of the world. And the guys I flew with were a bunch of balls-to-the wall types, for sure. Then the jet transports came in, just before my enlistment was up, and you could fly nonstop to Europe in 12 hours easy, no stops, no hell-raising along the way. And now, they even have women flying the dang things.
Same thing with trucking. As you obviously recall, not only were trucks a lot less powerful, they had no power steering, so you had to be strong to turn a loaded one. There was no air conditioning (and no heat in a lot of the trucks) and the only people with engine brakes were coming out of California or Colorado. Truck drivers in those days were some tough hombres (myself excluded).
So, if you made a slight miscalculation, you could have a runaway truck, or a brake fire, coming off a long grade. Remember the runoffs they had at some of the mountain passes so if you lost control, you could run off into a sand pile, and hope you survived? I came off an unfamiliar grade in Virginia at dusk, put it in to low a gear, and instantly bumped up against the governor so hard I thought the engine would blow. Instead of stopping right then, I went for a higher gear, and the truck was picking up so much speed free-wheeling that by the time I could find a gear, I was going too fast, and knew that if I had any chance of stopping it was going to be a slim chance. I stood on the brakes and finally brought it to a stop, feeling the brakes glaze as I did so.I got out of truck and smoke was just rolling off the brake drums. After that, I picked the right gear and kept continuous light pressure on the brakes, and would usually stop partway down a long grade to cool the brakes.
Anyway, what you say about fighting and guns is for sure true. I didn't know any Moon drivers who didn't pack iron, and there weren't to many you'd want to cross. For one thing, we were all so tired all the time it made us crabby. Another Moon guy offered to shave my mustache off and I told him I had a boomer pipe in my tractor that said he couldn't get it done. We weren't joking, but we were always on good terms. I never had any problems with the guys.
As you know, Moon Freight Lines hauled building material from the quarries, and backhauled steel. We were paid 22% of truck gross, and there was a fair amount of uncompensated deadhead. The top drivers made about $225-250 per week in 1971. It was a Teamster company, but Moon management didn't give the teamsters squat.
One summer while I was driving there, the boys decided to have a wildcat strike. It peeved them that drivers for Sims Motor Transport, just down the street, were getting 24%. So the Moon guys wanted 24% (never got it, because management pulled the loads, and left the strikers out in the hot sun all summer).
Anyway, there was a guy at Moon named Herb Skaggs. If you know any ex-Moon drivers, they will remember Herb Skaggs. Herb was in reality who John Wayne wanted us to think he was. He was built like a tank, and always had at least a half plug of tobacco in his cheek, which I never saw move, and I never saw him spit. Herb's motto was that if anyone thought they were tougher than he was they were going to have to prove it. When he spoke, which was seldom, nobody ever argued.
During this wildcat strike, Herb (who was foreman of maintenance) was headed north on Ind. 37 when the Teamsters business agent, Bill Martin, saw him motoring along in a Moon Freight semi headed for Oklahoma City. So, Martin decided to chase Skaggs and pull him over. Herb just ignored him until Martin started swerving his car into Herb's lane. They were going over 50mph at this point. Herb just pulled the truck to the left and ran Martin right into the grass median and into a concrete culvert and totaled Martin's brand-new Teamsters car. And kept on driving.
Another driver there at the time of the strike, Jim Temple (called himself "Big T", a wild-*** if ever I met one) decided to do the company a favor and pulled a load through the picket line, destined for the piers in New York City. The union wired ahead to the local union in New York, and they met him at the piers and beat him up so badly that Moon had to send the company plane to fly him home. Rough boys in those days; most of them were too independent to find jobs elsewhere, but Moon was a pretty tolerant company so long as you made on-time deliveries. You know what? I never heard any of them complain.
Let's hear some stories from you. I imagine you have some hair-raisers.

Answer:
Great thread and great stories guys. Keep 'em commin!!!

Answer:
It has been over 30 years since I last drove. some of the stories I will tell will make me look like an absolute idiot, but what the heck? It is a wonder I am still alive. I will make a mental note into a real note, so I don't forget to tell these:
1. picking up the wrong trailer and taking a Cincinnati load to Milwaukee
2. stacking a load of steel plates and nearly losing it
3. having an air hose blow coming off a hill
4. forgetting that when you back around a corner, the tandems of the tractor stick out beyond the side of a trailer and knocking over something
5. hydroplaning on an exit ramp with an empty flatbed and nearly getting killed
6. using "Georgia overdrive"
7. runing out of fuel 300 miles from home
8. making a wrong turn and having to drive a few hundred miles throught the boondocks to get home
9. never filling out logs because even trying to keep two sets wouldn't allow me to get the numbers right. So I had to wait until I was back home.
Well, I will wait for a few from the Roadrunner. It will probably stimulate some more memories.

Answer:
By the way, what Roadrunner says about strikes in the old days is very true. I have seen trucks come in with bullet holes also. The Teamsters in those days were thugs, and that is how they got and kept power. If you crossed them, or any other union, you were asking for, and were gonna get, big trouble. Truck drivers in those days were rough as cobs.
What he says about outlaw companies is true too. I would occasionally run into guys that not only knew how to avoid all the scales and consistently ran overweight, but ran without any authority whatsoever.
Irregular route carriers treated log books as a necessary annoyance. There was no way you were going to be in compliance. The only way you were going to get caught, unless you got stopped (which was rare, unless speeding) was if your fuel ticket showed you being somewhere your log didn't (which was often the case).
I knew one guy who made three turns to New York City from Bloomington Indiana every week, and he was home at least one day on the weekend every week. If I recall correctly, it was over 800 miles one way from Bloomington to NYC. So he was running at least 4800 miles in a 6-day period, week in, week out. This is fact.
Truck engines were small by comparison to today. The biggest engine in use was a Cummins 335, although briefly Detroit Diesel offered a V-12. Most 0/0's were running Cummins 250's and Detroits in the 238-318 range, with some 270 Cats.
The Cummins guys would turn up the fuel on their engines, and when they were pulling a grade, you could see flame shooting out of the stack.
Back then, you could actually hear the engines, not like the "sewing machine" sound they all make now. You could tell by listening what kind of engine was in a truck, and how big it was. You could hear it coming for half a mile away. I used to like going through small towns at night and hearing the sound echoing of the buildings.
There was in fact a lot of romance to trucking in those days.