Question:
Here is a question that I have been asking myself and really would like to get an answer to. Being a new driver, I pride myself in trying to run legal but after reading some post this question comes to mind. When I am sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded should I be off duty or on-duty not driving? I normally go to line 4 on-duty not driving for 15 minutes. I figure that by the time I find someone to handle the paperwork, assign me a door and I get the doors open and backed in, I have spent 15 minutes, then spend the rest of the time on line one. But, if I sit there for 2 or 3 hours, having to keep the CB on channel 5, let's say, am I really off duty or am I on-duty not driving?
Tnraven
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes!!

Answer:
Originally posted by Tnraven:
But, if I sit there for 2 or 3 hours, having to keep the CB on channel 5, let's say, am I really off duty or am I on-duty not driving?
You're on-duty not driving.

Answer:
If you are at the dock waiting for loading/ unloading what ever, shouldn't you be on line 2?
I understood that you can go off duty for meals or other breaks with a writen ok from your employer, but you have the ability to leave the area that the truck is to pursue your own interests and it is for at least 30 minutes but not longer than 2 hours. That is the form that I have and I think it is standard because my co. doesn't care how long I would log off duty.
JESUS is the reason for the season!

Answer:
Is it EVER legal to log any time at a shipper/receiver as "off duty"? I thought your only choices were "on duty not driving" (line 4) or "sleeper berth" (line 2) as long as you are actually in sleeper.
I understood to be log off duty you had to be free to leave the premises and go elsewhere such as for a meal, etc. (and then you may get into that area about having a meal card from the company, etc.)
Hubby had a card at Swift saying he was allowed to log meals off duty.
Shortly before he left Swift, they included a note on front cover of logbooks that said drivers were also allowed to log time waiting for loads/unloads and dispatches as "off-duty" and they cite some rule or reg number.
Does anyone have an explanation for this? Are meals and time spent at docks something that is left up to the employer's interpretation? Is it one of those "gray areas"?
A mind is a terrible thing to have.
_________________
A mind is a terrible thing to have.

Answer:
Interpretations Part 395
§395.2 Definitions
Question 2: What conditions must be met for a CMV driver to record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time?
Guidance:
1. The driver must have been relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.
2. The duration of the driver's relief from duty must be a finite period of time which is of sufficient duration to ensure that the accumulated fatigue resulting from operating a CMV will be significantly reduced.
3. If the driver has been relieved from duty, as noted in (1) above, the duration of the relief from duty must have been made known to the driver prior to the driver's departure in written instructions from the employer. There are no record retention requirements for these instructions on board a vehicle or at a motor carrier's principal place of business.
4. During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated.
Question 3: A driver has been given written permission by his/her employer to record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time. Is the driver required to record such time as off-duty, or is it the driver's decision whether such time is recorded as off-duty?
Guidance: It is the employer's choice whether the driver shall record stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time. However, employers may permit drivers to make the decision as to how the time will be recorded.
Question 4: A driver has been given written permission by his/her employer to record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time. Is the driver allowed to record his stops during a tour of duty as off-duty time when the CMV is laden with HM and the CMV is parked in a truck stop parking lot?
Guidance: Drivers may record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time, except when a CMV is laden with explosive HM classified as hazard divisions 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3 (formerly Class A or B explosives). In addition, when HM classified under hazard divisions 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3 are on a CMV, the employer and the driver must comply with §397.5 of the FMCSRs.
Keep the faith.
Mike
Disclaimer: The views posted are those of the author and in no way represent the US Department of Transportation or the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. The accuracy of the rules posted are subject to the status of rules and regulations posted by the GPO and other Government Agencies. The author accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies of any posted regulation or interpretation. Readers should seek legal counsel for all legal issues.

Answer:
Chances are good if you asked your safety dept. that question, they would tell you to stay off line 4, show only 15 minutes max. All the other time your to log line 2.
Most trucking companies go over the log book during your orientation, and they tell you how to log their way. All the large carriers will tell you in orientation to lie on your line 1 through 4. They all encourage their drivers to use line 2. The key in wording is "encourage". That's the term they use to keep them out of the gray area of telling their drivers to log illegal for your benefit on making more money and higher profits for the carrier.
If your on line 1 more than 15 minutes your eating into available driving hours thus available company profits. If your not running profitable for the carrier they'll work out a plan to begin to push you out. Usually the plan that works best for these companies is laying you over more, your weekly miles will drop significantly, you'll get more short runs and longer waiting times because your bumping more docks per week.
They will not fire you for refusing to lie on your log, they know better than that, their not that dumb. But there are many other ways to legally get around that. Starving you out is the most common and most effective. The driver doesn't need to be fired, he voluntarily quits because he's not making enough money to feed himself.
You'll always have others on this forum posting laws that state, a carrier cannot fire you for logging legal. It's true, it is against the law. But carriers don't have to fire you, they simply make your job so miserable you'll quit. Now their off the hook. They accomplished their goal, without breaking the law.
As always, someone will post the law anyway, they always do. Carriers know this law as well. They know how to get around it.
Sure, you can take them to court because you suspect your pay dropped because you refuse to log funny. You have that right. However, it's tough to prove and you'll need to hire a lawyer to fight a big company who has a very good legal staff working for them. You'll need to a grat deal of up front money to hire a lawyer, anywhere from $5000 to $10,000 with no guarantee you'll win.
If you win, sure, you'll get your job back with court ordered back pay. The question is, would you go back and face the same abuse all over again?
[This message was edited by dak1 on December 23, 2002 at 13:05.]
[This message was edited by dak1 on December 23, 2002 at 13:06.]

Answer:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shewolf:
Is it EVER legal to log any time at a shipper/receiver as "off duty"? I thought your only choices were "on duty not driving" (line 4) or "sleeper berth" (line 2) as long as you are actually in sleeper.
Great question. Try explaining to a shipper or receiver you can not move your truck because his delays used up all of your hours of service. I'm sure that will fly like a lead balloon.

Answer:
FMCSR
395.2 Definitions
On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:
(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor
carrier;
(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;
(6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle;
(7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, in order to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post-accident, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier;
( Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of a motor carrier; and
(9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier.

Answer:
Hoss made it real simple, you are on duty not driving.
Want reality? If you do log all your time waiting as on duty not driving you will run out of hours very quickly. Although most likely illegal, I log 15-30 minutes loading. The rest is sleeper berth, line 2.
If it is early and I am waiting for trucks to be called on the CB I will usually be sleeping until they start calling. Unless of course some idiot or idiots feel some need to start talking on the channel the company uses. Then I ask them nicely to go to another channel. Because they are rude inconsiderate idiots they usually don't.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten it"
_________________
RC Universe


Answer:
Originally posted by Tnraven:
I normally go to line 4 on-duty not driving for 15 minutes. I figure that by the time I find someone to handle the paperwork, assign me a door and I get the doors open and backed in, I have spent 15 minutes.
You did that part correct & legal
then spend the rest of the time on line one.
Why are you wasting your time on line one?
But, if I sit there for 2 or 3 hours, having to keep the CB on channel 5, let's say, am I really off duty or am I on-duty not driving?
Were you not tought about sleeperberth combinations?
In your situation, I would have logged the 15 minutes on-duty not driving just like you did, then turned the ignition to the acc. slot turned my sesame street box on to ch. 5 and then crawled into the sleeper, made a sandwich, watched a little TV & then catch a nap. As long as your in the sleeperberth you can log line 2 which in return will not burn up your 70 hours & you'll benefit your driving time.
You do not need to sleep to legally log sleeperberth, just have to be in there.
Disclaimer ~ Don't take it to seriously, I'm just trying to start trouble!

Answer:
Looks like I may need to change my way of thinking for a while anyway. I guess if I am tied to the truck and can't do as I please, I may as well spend it in the sleeper berth. I had thought about this, but it didn't seem right to me. I will change the way I have been doing things and see how that turns out. Thanks again and the best of holidays to all....
Tnraven
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes!!

Answer:
Just log line 4 and run out of hours quickly.

Answer:
The way I log is, if I am picking up a load and waiting for them to load me I log as 15 min. check in and sb because you are technically going to be sleeping or at least laying down. Then if I am picking up a loaded trailer, I do 15 min check in/ drop and hook. It doesn't take that long to do all that unless it's just a bad bad day. I am legally allowed 1 1/2 hours of off duty time and if I am in my company yard I log off duty no matter how long I am there. If I go for a potty or drink break, heck if it is less then 15 minutes I don't log as anything. I have to admit that my first week of logging without my trainer was harder then heck. I made a few mistakes, but I just initialed and made it look presentable.
I just thought I'd tell you how I log, I don't think it'll help at all because everyone is different, I just think it's easy way.
Peace and Good Will
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