Question:
I have watched the negativity in this forum grow to something little more than a giant whine fest. Sadly there is not a cheese ball in all of North America big enough to go with all the whining in what is known as the "Newbies" forum.
I find it appalling that the moderators have let this forum degenerate into nothing more that a platform that does little to give a person an honest appraisal of what trucking entails; but is nothing more that a superficial whining session chaired and run by those that have failed at trucking in itself. Which in itself if pathetic. Be real, trucking, while sometimes rigorous, is really not that hard. It's not like you're building and launching the space shuttle. Like Duuuh!
Discouraging is that most of those that post the negative about trucking are failures at trucking in itself. It seems like every failure at trucking has found a home on this forum. Although I have failed at one or two things in life, I would never make it my lives career to brag about it. Whatever floats you boat - I guess.
In as far as remaining a member of this whine fest, why bother! Most of the posting I have argued pro Swift or pro trucking, those presenting an argument can offer little to back up what they say. And what little they offer they blow it so out of proportion that the whole argument in itself becomes absurdly ridiculous. The last argument against Swift got down to the fact that a newbie driver didn't get a brand new truck. The stupidity of such a point was so far beyond contemptuously astounding... there was nothing I could come back with.
I have read Stuffs post "...AGAINST living in a truck..." My first throught was just more anti-trucking rhetoric. Then the fan club chimes it. Rush has his dittoheads; guess the whining forum has it bitterheads. The gratuitous worshiping off the negative just about sent me to the bowl to throw up. My following thought was ...well I keep that one to myself. Excellent, or even good, were not thoughts I held towards this posting.
It has gotten to the point that a newbie can't even ask a question without receiving a bunch of false information in reply. And those that try to bring out the positive of trucking get attacked, buried in bullsh!t, slandered and even stalked. Clearly, the Newbies forum is not welcoming to anybody that is willing to share the positive of trucking.
For the most part, most of the debates degenerate into name calling, accusations and the whole thread ends up sent of into oblivion; specifically in area not publicly accessible.
As much as I hate to say this, but trying to bring truth into an environment that does not support truth is pointless. It's like trying to bring Christianity into a Darwinian convention...
I guess my biggest downfall around here is that I am an independent thinker. I am a person that makes a decision based on my own needs and what is true. I have no use for information that others project from another person. I made a decision to go with Swift after looking at several other companies, talking to their drivers, comparing what Swift offered in pay, benefits and the runs that I was interested in. Nobody could match what Swift had to offer.
As far as my lack of participation, I don't mean to be offensive, but y'all are boring. You say the same thing over and over; the arguments are the same. Seriously, there is rarely anything new here. And as much as I hate to say (brag) I have more to my life than to participate in the same whining bitter arguments, over and over. Although trucking is a part of my life, it is not my life.
There are people that are successful at OTR. I'm one of them. There are a lot of successful drivers at Swift. There are also a lot of successful people driving a truck other companies, big and small, as well. Just because we don't continue to argue with you about the benefits of OTR, does not mean that you're right. As in my case, it simply means that we have tired of the negative misinformation posted around here and have chosen other activities.
I do not recommend spending 24 hours at a truck stop. For me personally, a truck stop is a place to park, shower and eat. I hadn't been driving for 3 weeks before I figured out that most of the people that hang around truck stops are nothing more than whining miserable crybabies. Sorry, life is too short to be bothered with a bunch of bitterheads.
If you go someplace to seek out bitterheads, guess what you're going to find? Got that one in grade school.
Truth? Haven't seen much around here, lately.
But WTF for old time sakes:
Argument Trucking Sucks: Trucking is nothing more than your mirror of your life. If your life sucks, then trucking is not going to change that, and the fact your life sucks, will be exaggerated in your viewpoint of trucking. People that are happy in life and have chosen trucking as a career will be happy with their choice and successful with their choice as well.
If you hang around with negative people, you will have a negative outlook in life. You are what you surround yourself with. Which is why I have moved away from this forum.
Argument Trucking is hard work: Hard as in difficult, oh please. 90% of your time your driving. If you log all your dock time (as required by law) 95% of the dock time is standing or sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded, and most of the time you can jump into you cab and do whatever. Some drivers sleep, some have computers, game boys, TV, books, whatever. You are under no obligation to stand and feed the bitterheads. Heck all you need is basic math skills. I used to do my logbooks in my head. Give me a break.
Argument Trucking is Rigorous: Yes it is. There are times when you will have to unload or load a trailer. Most companies say 10%. In two years of driving I had to run freight by hand off one trailer. Everything else was with a pallet jack. I've never hand loaded a trailer. Rolled pallets into about six or so trailers.
A lot of this how plays out is your attitude. If you have a crappy attitude, you can plan to be unloading a lot of trailers, alone. But that is your own stupidity, not the fault of the anyone else.
Argument Living in a small box: Ya know, there ain't no rule that says you gotta stay in the damn thing 24x7. Get your dead a$$ out of the truck and go for a walk and get some exercise. The only person "keeping you in the box" is your own damn self. Give us a break, grow up, be responsibilities for your own actions; quite blaming your entrapment on others!
And if going down the highway you can't see the God given beauty that this country has to offer, than your dumber than the lug nuts on your tires. And again, your the one that refuses to look pass you your windscreen. That's your own damn fault, quit your crying.
Argument, no home time: Okay folks, some reality. YOUR COMPANY IS PAID TO MOVE FREIGHT! Accept it. They don't move the freight, they lose the customers. They lose the customers, they can't pay you. They can't pay you... you don't have a job.
I have to be honest that home time, for me, was not that big a deal. I had family all over the nation and took my time when I was close to family and friends. And there were times when I had to blast past Atlanta with no time for a visit. I could P&M (p!ss and moan) for the rest of my life, or just accept it and go on with life. P&M'ing never did anything for me, so why waste my time?
Be honest. For whatever reason, marriage, kids, etc, if you cannot be away, or are to attached to home, for whatever reason, you need to be home regularly; why did you choose a profession that required you to be away from home? If you are unable to stay away from home for 2 weeks at a time, then most likely over the road trucking is not for you. You might be able to get on with a local company, but most do not hire inexperienced drivers.
Argument, Pay is lousy: Lowest pay (post training) for Swift is $.26 per mile. At 60 MPH you will make $15.60. That's lousy??? Rush hour traffic? Say you get stuck in Seattle and move 11 miles in an hour in an hour you make $2.86. I'll agree that sucks - but that is the way the occupation works. Unless you are in an hourly occupation you will be working past 40 hours anyway!
Do you spend your 11 hours everyday day driving 11 MPH? Unless you are in NY, LA and other major metropolitan area, sans accidents, you are going to be running 60 or better for most of the day. If you are spending 11 every day driving 11 MPH than you will do better as a burger flipper, and please do the trucking industry a favor and get that burger flipping job application in ASAP!!!
Argument, no respect at grocery warehouses: Look in the mirror. Again your attitude is going to be the leading cause of this outcome. I delivered regularly to one and the guys got to know me. I was always pleasant, had my bills ready and did what I was told. It wasn't long before I could walk in drop off my bills, get my dock assignment and be back out the gate under 2 hours. Best time there was 45 minutes. The fork lift was in the truck before I got the wheel chocks in place. And yet, I still have to hand drivers the crying towel when they find out they are going to this customer. The rest of us that deliver to there are always willing to go there, the guys that work there are great. They get you in an out. Well, unless you start throwing attitude at the warehouse. In that case, you'll probably get through "War and Peace" before you're unloaded.
By the way, the proper response to, "Can you slide you tandems back?" is along the lines, "Sure no problem."
Argument, DOT hates truckers: Can ya blames 'em? Look at the way you treat them. I've never had a problem with a DOT officer or inspection. They have always been courteous with me, and I with them. Must be my winning smile, or that courteous attitude. I am sure that it has nothing to do with the fact that I check my equipment every morning, as I roll down the highway and when I stop. And I am positive that it has nothing to with the fact that every time DOT asks for my logbook, it is current to my last stop.
Argument, you have cheat on your logbooks to succeed in trucking: Bull.
In reality, what you make cheating, you give to the government. There are so many checks and balances: fuel time stamps, DOT stations, credit card time stamps, toll time stamps and there is that little GPS device in your truck called Qualcomm. And guess what? It transmits your position back to your company on a frequent bases, along with all kinds of information, including how fast you're going. Plus is it worth always looking over your back and is it worth having to sweat every DOT spot?
Although most companies, that I am aware of, do not track you movement based on anything more that your fuel receipts... but you know that guy that is always advertising on TV about how he can help you if you were involved in an injury accident? He knows how to get all those Qualcomm records, your VISA statements, etc. And you bet he will go after every piece of paper he can find to prove you were lying on your logbooks. Because once he proves you were lying on your logbooks, he goes to your employer and they just write him a check. Oh, and for bonus, after you're bankrupted by the "help for the injured", the district attorney gets to deal with you about all your creative record keeping and will be more than happy to help you with new living arrangements: you will be a guest of the local prison.
Just because the idiot next to you at the dock brags about how he ran the last 24 hours on three logbooks, doesn't mean you need to be stupid, as well.
Argument, trucking does not pay: Most companies expect their drivers to run 10,500 miles per month. Even at 26 CPM that is $2700 per month. Add stop pay, unload pay, etc., it gets better. Once you get your six months in your looking at $3100. This is all attainable without "playing with your logbook." Then add benefits, 401K, stock options, you have a nice pay package.
Argument, the company screwed you out of your paycheck: Get your bills signed and you paperwork in on time. I had only one trip show up not paid, told my DM, he got it fixed on the next pay check. But I write my ID, Manifest and truck# on E*V*E*R*Y*T*H*I*N*G I send in.
Argument, this company sucks, that company sucks: Bummer. Got anything positive to say about any company? Didn't think so.
Argument, don't work for the large companies.... blah blah blah: Go some bad news for you, the small companies don't hire inexperience drivers. Be honest, give your training company an honest try. It will probably work out for you. If not, get your time in and head for the small company. Oh, and make sure you got some extra money for when they don't make payroll.
Okay, the last sentence was shameless.
non-Argument, companies don't pay actual driven miles: Thank your predecessors for that one. All companies will tell you up front how they calculate your mileage pay. If not ask them.
I agree it sucks, but P&M'ing about it ain't gonna change it.
Training: I agree that a training truck should be run as a training truck until the trainer is satisfied that the trainee is qualified to run unsupervised. Unfortunately some many times the trainer is more interested in the revenue than they are in the training. And that is throughout the whole industry. The whole training ideology needs to be changed. But all I ever see is how f*cked it is, I don't see anybody coming up with a viable solution. In reality P&M'ing will not change anything.
Anybody that's around here for awhile saw Lori(?) go through 3(?) trainers and leave the industry. The last I heard, she has returned to the industry. Make a commitment and stay with it. I have seen people jump of a training truck for some of the most ridiculous reasons. So what if he leaves the cap off his toothpaste. If it bothers you that much, by a washcloth and put it over his tooth paste. It's only for 6 weeks!!! It's not like you are going to marry your trainer.
High turnover. I think a lot of it is people don't know what they are getting into. One figure that is lacking is turnover based on the time in service. I haven't put my finger on it, but there seems to be a golden point, that once reached the turnover drops. Unfortunately, most of the math used to generate the numbers is so creative that nobody can come up with what generates the numbers. I think the numbers used comes from the same people that create governmental budgets.
As a final thought to those that hate the industry: Leave.
-JHappy Dwellers Society
Company Driver Division

Answer:

Amazing.
All I have to say is, if your life long ambition is to be a twucking dummy, please keep the S OB upright or off other vehicles. You bozos are crashing like crazy, everywhere. Always a truck caused backup. Torn up fenders. It's getting to the point of ridiculous. If you're dying ( literally ) to get out there solo for $7/hr.and not ready for it, please don't drag others into your 2nd sorry twucking decision.______
|l ,[____],
l---L –OlllllO-
()_) ()_)-(-)_)
I'd rather die on my feet like a man than live on my azz hiding in a truck.........Sir James Brown

Answer:
Ahh, the first response.
....Name calling, x2.
....Statistically inaccurate, x2.
Thanks for proving my post.
Next

Answer:

Standard opening; attack everyone who has disagreed with your point of view in the past.

Continue attack; make vague accusations. Point out how stupid everyone who disagrees with you is.

Insinuate that everyone who disagrees with your point of view is a liar.

Continue to make outlandish, unsubstantiated accusations. Attack everyone with whom you disagree.

Unlike this rant which originates with name calling and accusations.

It takes a special brand of arrogance to believe that one’s point of view is the “truth” and that everyone who disagrees is wrong.

Actually, your "biggest downfall" is a tossup between your narrow minded point of view and your arrogance.

Translation: Swift worked for you.

No sweat; you weren’t missed.

The term “success”, like “truth”, means different things to different people. As I’ve mentioned before, if the choice is between driving a truck and working on a turkey farm, becoming a truck driver could be seen as being “successful”.

Continue attack against those with whom you disagree.

You mean truck drivers? Yeah, it’s true; most of them are pretty bitter about the job. That’s one of the reasons most of us naysayers don’t recommend it.

Nonsense. Trucking is a job; nothing more, nothing less. It’s a means to support oneself and one’s family. It is no more a mirror of one’s life than digging a ditch is a mirror of one’s life.
On the other hand, OTR trucking does suck as evidenced by the rate of newbies who leave the industry every year.

Gee, we’ve really missed your bright & shiny outlook on Swift, too.

You must have picked that up from the Hapless Dwellers website. I’ve never heard anyone around here argue that trucking is hard work.

What are you yapping about? The primary argument against OTR trucking has nothing to do with loading/unloading trucks.

Actually, it’s the fault of the company for whom you have chosen to work. I have never loaded, or unloaded, a trailer and that is because I assiduously avoid companies which require me to do so.

How true, Recruiter J, how true! There’s no reason for drivers to be treated any differently than other workers who travel on company business and who stay in a motel every night at company expense. Please elaborate on Swift’s corporate policy to put drivers up in motels.

??????????????????

The company I work for is also paid to move freight; I am home every weekend. An inability to get drivers home is due to POOR PLANNING – nothing else.

Glad it worked for you.

OTR is certainly not for everyone and I agree with J that if you have commitments – such as wanting to have a life outside the truck - that require to be home regularly, OTR is not for you. On the other hand, most of you will find that local companies WILL hire newbies; ask around.

Actually, the argument is the pay per hour is lousy. There are 168 hours in a week and OTR drivers split those hours between the job and sleeping. Since a driver who is out for more than a week can only average a little more than 8 hours per day of driving – earning money, in other words – the other 6 hours per day (10 in the bunk sleeping, 8 hours driving) of watching over the truck/load, are donated to the company.

The above is what is known as a “Trucker’s Tale” and usually starts with, “This is no (edited)!” Good attitude, bad attitude – makes no difference. What you’re hauling has more to do with how long you’ll be there than anything else.

I don’t know where Recruiter J is coming up with all of these ‘arguments’ but it’s not from the naysayers in the Newbies Forum. He is correct about treating law enforcement personnel with courtesy, though.

In reality, virtually everyone who isn’t being paid hourly to drive, cheats on their logbook to one extent or another. What J is suggesting is that you learn where you can cheat and where you can’t.

“Nice” is in the eyes of the beholder. Assuming that everything works out as Recruiter J says, a driving will make between $32 and $39 K per year working for Swift. Figure that a driver will ‘work’ about 319 days per year (1 day off per 7 days out), that works out to between $7.30 to $8.75 per hour. Nice.

Got some bad news for you, Recruiter J: most small companies do hire newbies and the vast majority of them make payroll every payday. On the other hand, I wouldn’t suggest that a new driver go to work for an owner/operator.

Answer:
... inaccurate statements
... putting words in my mouth I've not spoken
... more name calling
... crazy math
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you bittehead Phil...
What's a matter Phil, can't you post without the name calling?
Thank you for making the points in my post.
BTW, you missed on the "translation"
next

Answer:

As I said before, J: "Continue to make outlandish, unsubstantiated accusations. Attack everyone with whom you disagree."


Okay, so Swift didn't work for you. It won't work for most of the newbies either.

Answer:

I got freight from point A to point B without crashing and ontime
I suckceeded at doing the job
Of you consider suckcess working so much for so little and living like a migrent worker and sleeping in the back of a car,I mean truck,your warpped.
Answer:

You may want to try and actually read the reply that Phil gave.........I know its long, but he suffered reading through yours......
Where was the name calling ....I didnt see it........On the other hand, me thinks you're an idiot.
LIARS SUKK

Answer:
I know he's an idiot who has a hard time with facts. He's also a recruiter for one of the cheapest companies there is, Swift.

Answer:

Don't forget poorly trained. US Express has a flat bed fleet trying their best to challenge Swift for the ultimate menace title, but there is no doubt that Swift is still the champ.

Answer:

And so now you join the fray whining about the whining. Classic.

Which supports my contention that many of those who end up in the trucking biz do so because they are too stupid to do anything else. Thank you.

Let's see how high up in the air you can get that nose now, eh?

I am often accused of being overly negative by you trucking cheerleaders. And yet NOT ONCE have any of you trucking cheerleaders pointed out where anything I have said has been factually incorrect. Negative? Certainly. False? Nope.
Appparently too many people have the ridiculous idea that only the positive aspects of trucking are worth sharing - that the negative aspects need to be kept quite for some stupid reason. Sorry, but that is stupid and wrong. In order for a prospective driver to make an informed decision, he/she must have as much information as possible, positive AND negative. The lifestyle change that becoming a truck driver entails is too great to be made on the basis of some feel-good rhetoric offered by some trucking cheerleader.

There is a difference between sharing the positive aspects of trucking and being a trucking cheerleader.

Puff yourself up why don't you.

So what you are saying is that you make decisions regardless of what outside information tells you?

That is hilarious.

And as you said yourself, OTR trucking is not that hard, so this, according to you, is not a great accomplishment.

That is because you have convinced youself that you wont find any here. I thought you were an independent thinker? Oh wait, you are - your thoughts are independent of reality. Sorry, my bad.

Oh please. What a bunch of crap.
I still think trucking sucks, and I am not intrucking anymore. In fact, my life is so much better since I have gotten out of trucking that it is even more apparent how much trucking sucks.

Nope. Before I got into trucking, I was happy with life. Even for the first couple of years of trucking I was happy with life. Once the novelty wore off, and it was more apparent how much crap I was putting up with for so little compensation, and how my quality of life had degenerated, I ceased to be happy. Trucking turned me from a happy person into an angry one. Who wouldn't be angry about the crap that drivers put up with?
Now that I am not involved with the BS that is OTR trucking, and have returned to my high pay and higher quality of life, I am no longer angry. But you still will never get me to set aside reality and tell anyone how great trucking is. That would be a lie, and lies are a disservice to anyone who is thinking about getting into the business.

Bye. Have a nice day.

And this is an argument supporting the positive aspects of trucking? Yeah right.
Sitting waiting to get loaded/unloaded is so great? Especially since many companies do not pay for this time? You just shot yourself in the foot with this one - you want to proclaim how great trucking is, and then you post this, which is one of the biggest problems with the entire biz - unpaid but mandatory time at work.

I haven't touched freight in years. No driver should. you just showcased another area of trucking where the driver is getting shafted. I thought you were supporting thepositive aspects of trucking?

And when you are done doing that, you have to return to that box on wheels. You cannot do the things that most normal people with normal jobs do once they are off the clock.

If a truck company doesn't do what theyhave to in order to keep drivers, how in the hell are they going to move freight? Freight can't be moved without drivers.
Treat the drivers right and they will have no problems moving your freight. Alas this is a concept foreign to most truck company management.

So tell me again the point behind this post?

Exactly - and yet when this position is offered, people like you dismiss it as another negative post about trucking that is intended to dissuade prospective drivers from the biz.

Yup. That would be a hell of a pay cut for me.

I was not the typical filthy truckdriving slob. I was always well dressed, well spoken, and respectful to customers. And still the last grocery warehouse I went to wanted to keep me there for 8 hours, and make me unload my own freight (supposedly there were no lumpers). I refused.
Now please tell me how being detained for 8 hours, and being expected to unload my own freight is a sign of respect from the grocery warehouse? It isn't. I have rarely come across any freight that fits in a box trailer (refrigerated or otherwise) that takes more than an hour to load/unload. Any delay beyond that is disrespectful to me as a driver. It costs me time and money.

Well, cant argue with anything there, dammit.

Can't argue with anything there either, dammit.
Except to point out that both these arguemnts add evidence to my contention that truckdrivers are stupid. And if truckdrivers are stupid, then why would I encourage anyone to join their ranks?

Still a pay cut for me. And for anyone who applies themselves outside of trucking.

I have made sure everything was sent in and have still had corporate f**k something up. That was when I was with a particular reefer company years ago.
Once in awhile it happens, but when it is a regular occurence, it is a sign of incompetence.

The solution is obvious to most everyone except truck company management.

Agreed - they were likely fed only the positive aspects of trucking by some thin skinned trucking cherleader. Then when they get into it, they realize that all the negative stuff that they read on Trucknet and knew couldn't possibly be true was in fact true.

I did. Should have done so long ago.
Answer:

yet if anyone tries telling them,you call the person a whiner or fialure or some name.
If everyone would shut up, it sure would amke your recruiting efforts easy,oh well nothing is easy
Answer:
yep, because recruiters like Desk DriverJ treat people like Mushrooms. Most have no way of knowing what their getting into be cause recruiters, schools and drivers feed them full of crap. Most usually figure it out after they have gone in debt and about lost their home.
(edited- seems you can't say mushrooms (mush-rooms) no more.,, testing testing.....Nope no shrooms allowed, thats funny. )

Answer:
driver j To be on such a high soap box wanting your message to be heard, you have a very obnoxious way about you. True there's too many tears in the beer with some of these posts, but some of the wiser knights of the highway whoose rose colored glasses came off along time ago, can at least make their arguments using proper grammar and spelling. I'm no english major but please don't make a fool out of yourself demanding to be heard if you can't spell. It makes you look like a jackass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Answer:

Lousy? That rate is insulting to anyone other than
the braindead. If anyone here is a failure,I believe it's anyone
with experience that would continue to work at Swifts wage levels.
The Top rate rates at minimum for what I would even consider
a 'living' and that's $.20 less than what it should be.
$8.00 per hour for 'local'?
First class carrier and wages.
Training and SAFER Record speaks for itself.
Not surprising your recruitment efforts are being renewed 'J'.
You been 'over yonder' with your drivel yet?