Question:
I've been at this for quite a few years. Military & civilian. Wheeled vehicles, tracked vehicles..........long combos & short combos.
I've noticed that Bearbell has had problems in the past with backing into a dock.........EVERYBODY DOES!
Oh yeah, Bearbell..............Last Thursday & Friday, I couldn't have hit a bull in the azz with a scoop shovel!

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That and... don't believe it when a driver says they NEVER grind or miss a gear occasionally.
Unless they are operating an autoshift.

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Hoss is right. No matter how much experience you have, there will be days that backing to a dock will be like pulling teeth. Everyone has bad days.
Remember 2 things about backing. First, get out and look. Drivers tend to get testy when you take their fender off with your trailer. Second, you can not back too slow. It's not a race to see who can bump the dock first. Take your time and do as many pullups as you need. You're not there to impress anyone.

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Im a one shot to the dock...square every time
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still can't alley dock worth poop am getting so frusterated..maybe one out of three it does what i "hope" for, am wondering if some folks are just born without that dna ...not much point to get out and look i am at least able to tell immeadiatly when there is no salvage....unfortunatly we will be taking the road test in the 28ft flatbed...yuck the really annoying piece is that i can back the box trailer alsmost every time....As a matter of fact i would like some cheese with that whine..
thanks all i do get discouraged somedays...at least the cones are fairing better these days or else therapy has paid off and they are getting less suicidal

Answer:

After you get the hang of this (and, if you stick with it, YOU WILL ), what you'll find is that about 90% of your backing skill is in the setup. Unfortunately, I know of no way to explain the set up; for me it's more a matter of seeing the situation and then putting the truck where I think it ought to be to back into the hole. That was real helpful, huh?
Hang in there!!

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Maineiac,
The only advice I can offer is, If you can back the 28', you wont have any problems with the 48's and 53's. It don't sound right, but the shorter the trailor, the harder it is to back. they need less input and react quicker. therefore, most people tend to oversteer them. Take your time, and keep an eye on the left rear corner.
Ike

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Keep that humor going. It helps.
Like we all keep telling you....those short trailers are a major.....heck the are a 5 star general PITA. Sorry to hear that you are going to have to test out with one.
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Hoss- your so right, I was watching in the t/s the other day. Of course had no idea how long anyone had been driving but I can honestly say about 1/2 had as much trouble as I did getting in a spot. Watched a flatbedder 2 days ago try 3-4 times to back into a spot he gave up and moved on. A short time later I saw him pulling into the rest area I was going by. Honestly I would not wish backing troubles on anyone, but it helps me knowing others end up doing the same things I do.
Manic-Keep at it. Read my threads there is so much good advice in them. I finally decided I am a weirdo as I found backing the smaller trailers easier than the 48', I have NO idea why. Other than they respond to what I am doing faster and thats what I was used to in the bus. I have such apprenshion each time I back. I pray for pull thrus at truckstops. Actually the prayer is please let me find a parking spot *I* can get into I am finding that alot of times i can back into someplace and it takes only 15 minutes other times I "foget" to keep track of time it takes so long. Good luck with your test. Dont forget to let us know when you pass it

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The reason 28s and flat beds are harder to back , is because the rear tandem axel on the flatbed is all the way back on the trailer. Same on the 28s also. Having your rear axel all the way back on the trailer, will cause the trailer to react much more quickly then if your axels are up further. That is why trailers that have their tandems slid up with around five feet of overhang will always be easier to back and dock then trailers having axels all the way back.
I use to deliver paper to a printing warehouse in downtown Columbus, OH. This is an old warehouse district. The docks were built for 28s and 40 ft. trailers. Here I come in with a 53ft.. The warehouse guys just look at me and laugh. They said "it will take you an hour to dock that trailer in here". I looked at them and said nope, I will be in here in just a few minutes. They all laughed and said "No way will you do that". I walked back to the trailer and slide my tandems all the way back, got back in the truck, and put that trailer in the dock with one shot.
They were dismayed. I wanted to share this with newbies, if you find yourself in a tight docking area, and have a long trailer. You can take the point of articulation down to just inchs, on your tandem tires. With your tandems all the way back, your tailer will pivet like it is on a hinge. You just have to be quick as hell, in counter steering so that you can get the trailer to move backwards.
As for the 45 degreee alley dock, set-up is the key. Locate your dock, pull along the trailers so that your horizontal to them. Let your truck just pass the opening of the dock space and stop. Trun your wheel hard right till you hit the stoper. Pull forward till your truck is facing 12 o'clock then turn hard left till you hit the stoper on the steering wheel. Keep pulling forward till you have your tractor drive wheels straight under the nose of your trailer then stop. This should have the tractor and trailer straight and not pivited at an angle left or right.
Now as you start to back, look out your driver window, watch the trailer wheels and turn the steering wheel hard right. As the trailer starts to drift left counter steer back to the left. Keeping the steering wheel moving. If your not going to make your dock space, stop. Turn the steering wheel hard right and pull up using your passenger mirror. Keep pulling up till the dock space disapears in the passenger mirror. Once the dock space is gone in the passenger mirror, counter steer back to your left while moving forward, till your tractor and trailer have lined up completly straingt with one another. (Remember Always try to get straight before backing, you will have half the battle won with this simple rule) Now back on into your dock space.
How can you learn from your backing. One way is to always get out and look at your trailer in coralation to the dock. If your tailer is always to far left of the dock space then your counter steering to the left to quickly, slow it down. If your tailer is always to the right of your dock space, then your counter steering to the left to slowly, speed it up. As you see this and learn what your doing wrong, you will understand the correction that you need to make, you will get closer and closer to your dock space opening till you can either, get it right in or with a pull-up.
The other thing new diriver's due is over steer. A good way to overcome this is use of the steering wheel in the proper fashion. You have a cross bar on the wheel. The steering wheel is the other point of articulation, and you must get it out before you can back in a straight line. I am going to give you one of the most important tips for free, to help you in straight line backing. This will work on any 20inch wheel.
Turn the wheel all the way to the left or right, it does not matter. Once you hit the wheel stopper, use the cross bar on the wheel and turn it back two revolutions till your at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock with the cross bar. Now your steer tires are straight. (It is always easier to back up a completly straight tractor or trailer then a angled one and this includes the steer tires also)
Now keep your hands glued to the steering wheel at the 9&3 positions like on the face of a clock. DO NOT TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF THE WHEEL! As you back use your driver and passenger mirrors, if the space lets say in the driver mirror starts to tighten up, your drifting to your left, take it out by turning the steering wheel to the left, with hands at the 9 & 3 position, turn the wheel to the left till you reach the 6 o'clock position with the left hand and the 12 o,clock position with your right [b](At this point the cross bar on the steering wheel should be straight up and down). [/b] Hold this position till the trailer has straighted out. You can tell this by you tandem tires on the trailer, they will almost disapear under your trailer. Once you have them almost out of sight in your driver mirror, snap the wheel back to the 9 & 3 position. Do the same for you passenger mirror in making the same adjustment.
Remember, don't get fixed on just one mirror. Scan the rear of your trailer, in one mirror back and forth to the dock space three or four times, then trun that head to the other mirror and do the same. Keep repeating this scan till your in the dock.
And Hoss is right, I have driven all day and got to the shipper or delivery site, and have been so fatigued that my concentration is gone, and I could not hit that dock space to save my life.
I hope this helps you newbies, remember half the battle in docking is good set-up and taking out those points of articulation. If you use all of these hints together, you will be docking those trailers and using your time more effectivly.
And remember you can always take a pull-up, everyone will sometime.
Catch you on the flip!

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If you get frustrated like I am sure you will, like I was, get out and look everything over and get back in.
Here is what I did. If I was not in anyones way I would get out light a smoke and look at everything around my area.
What this did for me was cool me off and GOAL. Got my (edited) Out of the truck And Look around.
This is what I did. It is in no way a lesson, but just some simple guys way to get -R- done.This is USAF 2T2 and I approve this message.

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thanks so much scalehouse have printed out instructions..will sleep on them then tape to dash tom somehow it's got to sink in today was much better.
hope all of you here realize how much i appreciate the encouragement and the laughter....THANK YOU SO MUCH
am spending as much time as possible backing but all of us share only one working truck right now.....am thinking of trying to find someone who drives up here to take a day in an unused parking lot and just practice...
meanwhile off to bed 4am is coming earlier all the time these days...

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Actually, 4 AM comes the same time everyday.
Ike

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finally a sunny day..after almost a month of rain, but even brighter than that
i did all manevers 5 or 6 times today and got it every time...i think it was the gatorade...lol
thanks guys
road test next wed...yikes hope the truck is fixed by then would hate to do test in the truck we've harldy driven
oh well as one of my fellow students says "it's all good" course he was born with the parking gene

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It's harder because the distance from the center of the tandems to the kingpin (pivot point) is shorter. A short radius in the arc you're steering reacts more quickly to input, and requires greater action to counter. The tandems will react in the same time span for a given distance, regardless of how much trailer is hanging off the back.
Man, that's a lot of turning and fighting with the wheel. After you pass the hole, why not just head straight for 1 o'clock (10 o'clock referenced to the position in your description) for ten or fifteen feet, and straighten out until your tractor is parallel with the trailers? This will leave your unit already jacked and pretty close to a 45 degree angle. Turn the wheel just a turn and a half to the right and catch that 45 angle while backing, making small corrections as necessary. Hold the 45 until you're halfway through the operation, straighten it out and chase the trailer into the hole. The Schneider way is just too much work, IMHO.