Question:
Im about to finish up with my trainer (home for a break) after 5 weeks on the road, but I'm having trouble with the 45 degree back, the one most commonly used at docks/yards and truck stops. They didn't teach us this back at my driving school, and of course it's indispensible out on the job. My trainer doesen't speak english fluently, and I have a hard time asking him detailed questions and getting him to understand. This is what my trainer has taught me: Approach so the hole is on the drivers side and as close as possible. When the drives are at the hole, swing 90 degrees right so your headed straight out, then head off at a 45 degree angle to the left. This usually leaves the trailer (for me at least) about 10 feet out from the hole. My trainer then tells me that the next step is to "turn the steers hard right, then follow the trailer". But WHEN do I turn hard right (to get the angle correct), when the drivers side of the rear of the trailer is past the entrance, or before? What should I watch for? The next step I guess is to turn the steers to the left to bring the tractor straight with the trailer, but when? How hard should I counter-steer? All I get from my trainer is a blank expression followed by "just follow the trailer". Any tips on this? Backing isn't my strong point, so any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
What company are you training with? I'm just curious as to who has trainers that have trouble with speaking english.

Answer:
There is no precise answer to the questions you're asking, Dave. When to go hard right and when/how much to countersteer depends on your original set up, tandem positioning on the trailer and on the steering characteristics of your truck.
What you're trying to do is to get your trailer tires to follow an imaginary arc that begins where your trailer tires are at the point of setup and which ends about four feet directly in front of the parking spot. At that point, the arc turns into a straight line into the parking space.
So, as you start to back, you watch your trailer tires and and turn the wheel to the right to begin your arc. How hard to the right depends on the quickness of your truck's steering. Once you're satisfied that your trailer wheels are on the right path, you start to countersteer to keep them in line. In an ideal world, once your trailer tires are about 4' in front of the parking spot, your trailer would be perfectly straight and you'd simply follow it straight back. Unfortunately, most truck stops are less than perfect so you're going to have to modify the "perfect" scenario to fit your actual conditions.
What you want to try to avoid is pushing the trailer beyond straight out from the 'hole'. In other words, you're starting out to the left of the 'hole' and you want to keep the trailer there. If that means pulling up and straightening out, just do it. This isn't a driving test where the pull-ups cost you points. The only way you can learn to back is through practice and, in my opinion, the best practice is when you keep the trailer under control; hence, the pull ups. As you get a better feel for what the truck and trailer is doing when you're backing up, you'll eliminate the pull ups. Good luck.
BTW, leave the CB off when you're backing with a trainer.

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Back into a spot whenever you park. If you stop and there is enough room to drive through, don't. Set it up and back in. You will find that it is much easier to do when there is no "pressure" to get it in perfect.
Tom B

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Thanks for the tips, guys, really appreciate it. I'll see if I can get some practice backing done at a yard that's not busy once I head back out. Trapper: It's Swift. Don't get me wrong, not complaining, but it is a problem sometimes. My Trainer really knows his stuff, is an expert backer, and safety is number one with him, but it's just that sometimes he doesen't understand what I'm trying to find out. Detailed questions are occasionally a problem. At least he has a sense of humor and we got along well. Overall Swift has treated me really well and I would recommend them for a new guy just starting out. BTW, I've met a lot of drivers at Swift that have left and come back, and most of the drivers seem pretty satisfied, so they must be doing something right. Time will tell. Thanks again!

Answer:
Dave while I am NOT an expert at backing I can offer one tip. Make sure you know where your tandems are and how much of the trailer hangs over the back of the tandems. The further Back the tandems are the longer it will take for the trailer to react the further forward the tandems are the quicker the trailer will react but never forget that you have about 12 feet of trailer hanging out behind the tandems in that situation. The question of when and how long you hold the hard right turn depends on the type of tractor you are driving. The ol FL Classics and Pete Classics have a wider turning radius than the FL Century. It is all in imagining the arc the trailer is turning. Backing is similar to pulling out of a hole pull out a few times while watching your trailer and make note of how your tractor is positioned once you have that image in your head then imaging it in reverse and think about how you would need to turn the steering wheel to make the trailer do what you want it to. Always remember you are driving the trailer and not the tractor. if you keep that in mind you will never have any problems.
Last but never least use the Goal approach when in doubt. Get out and Look. Make sure you walk completely around the tractor and even stop at the entrance of the hole you are trying to put it in so you can see how the tractor and trailer is positioned. Another trick I was shown in training is to stand on the right side of the truck at about where the passenger door is, facing forward and turn your head to look over your shoulder. That will give you the picture you will see in the right mirror without all the little blind spots associated with using that mirror. Then Visualize what you would need to be doing with the steering wheel to place the trailer in the hole.
Many old timers out there, which I am not one of, will tell you that backing will take alot of time before you have it down pat. Practice makes perfect so the more often you get a chance to back the better you will be at it. I will also be starting at Swift but I wont be going through thier school.I have 3 months driving experience right now and will be going through thier phase II. I am still not certian if I will be attending the orientation next week or the week following. I might take another week so I can get some things done at home that really needs doing. Good Luch with Swift and maybe I will see you out there on the road.

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Thanks for your reply, Drafter. I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind. Just a little time and practice should do the trick. It doesen't bother me to use the GOAL approach, but whenever I start to get out to look, my trainer starts hand signaling me on how to get it in, which doesen't really help me much. When I follow the trainers hand signals, he's the one who is actually driving, I'm just holding the steering wheel. I'm going to suggest he let me have some time at a terminal yard or somewhere that's not too busy to try it on my own. Best of luck at Swift if that's what you decide to do. See ya out there!

Answer:
Every dock and parking situation is different, so it's hard to use the same angle formulas each time. It's more about timing than specific angles and degree ratios, and the most important thing you can do to make it easier is to set up with the trailer aimed in the direction you want it to go.
After I get set up to back I get out and open the trailer doors, while I'm doing that I check my set up from the ground to see what adjustments I need to make. As I start backing I've found it's easier to make small adjustments than to try making big ones, you don't necessarily need to turn the wheels all the way every time.
When learning to back it's sometimes easier to stop the truck before turning the wheel to make adjustments, instead of trying to turn the way you need to while the truck is rolling. Watch where the trailer is going, stop, adjust, go back some more. Pull up as many times as you need to! Get out and look as many times as you need to!
It takes a lot of time and practice, don't be too hard on yourself! Lots of truck stops have plenty of room on the back rows for practicing during the days.
Answer:
Thanks for your reply, Detour! One thing my trainer did say that you mention is that I'm oversteering. He says "you only need to turn the steering wheel a little during the back". Of course, for a new guy, your first inclination is to stop before making an adjustment to the steering, but my trainer is trying to get me to do the back in one smooth move. I told him that will come with experience...he gets frustrated with me when I stop. I continued with...well, what you don't understand is that it's not instinctive in me yet (here comes the communication problem since his english is somewhat limited). I need to STOP to think about what is going to happen next. Well, I'm not too worried. All I've got to do is pass my road test for the company once I finish my last week, then I can perfect the 45 once I'm out on my own by practicing without having a frustrated trainer watching. Thanks again!

Answer:
First let me state, there is more than one way to setup for any backing maneuver. If it works for you it is correct.
The following is the way I was taught to setup for an alley dock assuming you have enough room. You will probably want to layout these instructions with pencil and paper. If the opening of the space is North and the rear of the parking space or dock is South, approach from the East facing West. When the front of your drive tandems are even with the West side of the opening, turn right 90 degrees. As soon as you are facing North, immediately turn left 90 degrees. When you are facing West go straight West. When you can see the space in your driver side mirror, stop the vehicle.
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At this point, your cab should be facing West and your trailer should be at approximately a 45 degree angle( the front of the trailer is Northwest and the rear of the trailer is Southeast).
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Remember the following tips. Turning the bottom of the steering wheel to the left will cause the rear of the trailer to move to the left. Turning the bottom of the steering wheel to the right will cause the rear of the trailer to move to the right. As you already noticed the trailer does not react immediately to steering corrections. Back up slowly and see where it is going and make small steering corrections as necessary.
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Backing up is a lot of trial and error. Once you get the trailer moving at the angle you want, that is the time when you countersteer so that the cab follows the trailer. If you hold the steering wheel where it is, it will cause the trailer to turn in an arc that gets tighter and tighter. Get the angle and countersteer so the cab follows the trailer. Some instructors called this setting the angle and then chasing.
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Let me call attention to the above posts. All offered excellent advice. Most importantly is GOAL - get out and look. You are sure to have an accident at some point if you do not get in the habit of getting out and looking.
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If you need a pullup - take it. If the space between the rear of the trailer and the West side of the opening is wide, start your pullup by going forward to the left and arc to the right and then back to the left so you can see the lines of the parking space in both your mirrors. But, if the space between your trailer rear and the West side of the space is small. Start you pullup going to the right and arc to the left and then right until you can see both sides of the parking space in both your mirrors. Either way, space permitting, straight line back.
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I hope this helps you or someone else. If it does not work for you, fee free to disregard it and do what works for you. Good luck.

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I have very limited experience in 45 and 90 degree backing so I will not try to tell or explain to anyone else this procedure.
What I do want to stress is what alot of the posters have said. Please, if anyone is not sure GOAL.
It may take another 5-10-15 minutes to get it in the hole but what is a few more minutes of being careful compared to hurry up and bend or break something.
You will be watched and when your done, you will probably get nods from the other pros and maybe even a verbal " thanks for being careful, driver".
When you get a nod or a thanks it can make it all worth while.
Codger "Stop holding me back. I'm going to clown college." Homer Simpson

Answer:
My tip for over steering while backing up. I was taught this in school by Scalehouse. When backing up instead of having your hands at the 2 and 10 position on the steering wheel, put them at 3 and 9 and KEEP THEM THERE. If you do not move your hands while in this position you can only turn the wheel 180 degrees before you you cross your arms and can not move anymore. This really helped me in breaking my habbit of over steering.
Another tip he taught me was re-centering the steers. First turn the wheel completely to the stop in either direction, then turn it back 2 full revolutions. This will center up your steers. This helps me alot. As I am backing into a hole and once I have a good arc going I will stop and center up my steers again. This is after I have had to initially crank the wheel hard to get set up.
The biggest tip, other then using G.O.A.L. , would have to be TAKE YOUR TIME. Remember to be patient. You will find that some times what looked like a real nightmare of a spot you slide it right in. Other easy looking places might take you 10 pull ups or more. Every situation will be different. Your personal state of mind will be different, it can be more stressful to get backed in after driving for 10 hours then if you were fresh.
Another thing you might try to do when you find you have some extra time and a nice empty parking lot at a truck stop. Go to the back of the lot where you can find a lot of room and practice backing in. Once you get it between the lines pull out circle around and do it again. Try it from different set ups and different positions on the tandems to see what difference it will make. As was said drive the trailor not the tractor when backing.
With all things, it gets better the more you do it.

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Excellent, excellent instruction and advice. Thank you all for taking the time to explainin this back! For me at least, and many of the new guys that I've met out on the road, this is the scariest thing about driving the truck. Backing it. Especially in close quarters, and especially at Truck Stops. Trying to get into a slot at a crowded truck stop at night scares the c*** out of me. This is followed closely by trying to back into a slot at a crowded yard with trucks rushing back and forth trying to make their drops or deliveries. But I agree concerning GOAL and taking my time, which is exactly what I plan to do. I may have to get out of someones way and set up again, but until I know what I'm doing, then I'll take my time and follow the advice given here. I'll also get in some practice backing when the truck stops aren't crowded whenever time permits. Thanks again!

Answer:
45 Degree Backing
First off I do not know if you mean the space is at 45* Degrees or you get the tractor at 45 degrees and hold it for a 90* Back? So I will try to answer your question as best as I can.
Sounds as if you have the set up mostly right, thought I want to clarify a point or two. You want to watch the pivot point, if you are backing in on the sight side, the tractor is to the left of the trailer and the trailer is to the left of the space the pivot point is the center of the trailer dual axels on the left side.
After you set up the center of the trailer dual axel should be to the left of the space you are backing in beside(You are backing in beside a Pete you want the center of the trailer duals to the left of the Pete) if you jack under the trailer so the tractor is 135 degrees to the trailer or as I like to look at it 71/2 minutes before the top of the hour (The top of the hour is when you can see down both sides of you trailer just like when you are going down the road) then turn the wheel 3 turns to the left, which should hold the angle between the tractor and trailer till the trailer is 5 minutes from the top of the hour of the space( the trailer is almost parallel to the space) Turn the wheel all the way left( you want to try to keep the angle between the tractor and trailer the same as the angle between the trailer and the space so if the trailer is at a 45* (or 7 ½ minutes from the top of the hour) to the space you want the tractor 45* to the trailer(7 ½ minutes before the top of the hour of the trailer).
If you get the tractor at 90* to the trailer (or 15 minutes before {to the left} or after {to the right} of the hour) you will cork screw the trailer axel into the ground and may twist the trailer out of alignment and it will not pull straight down the road any more. Or on a hot day you may plow up some back top.
While you are backing in and holding the tractor 71/2 minutes before the hour if you want to get closer to that Pete turn right if you want to get away from that Pete turn left. The closer the tractor is to 15 minutes before the hour the sharper the trailer turns the closer to the top of the hour you are the sallower the trailer turns. You will not back straight unless you see both sides of you trailer at the same time If you only see one side of your trailer you are turning in that direction. If you see the left side you are turning left see the right side you are turning right.
All ways remember to get out and look so you do not have to utter the sorry truck refrain, I thought I had enough room.Do the VI maintain your following distance maintain your lane position observe the speed limit observe the things around you and keep good records
Safe driving to you.
Joe


Answer:
Thanks for the post, Joe! Talking about the back you have to do when you don't have enough room for a straight back. Approaching so hole is on the drivers left and as close as possible, turn 90 degrees to the right when drives are at the hole, but if you don't have enough room to continue forward after the right turn to set up for a straight back, you have to turn 90 degrees to the left, which leaves the trailer at 45 degree angle to the slot. Anyway, I think I see what your saying: Pivot point is the center of the trailer tandems on the drivers side, tractor to trailer angle sets the arc into the slot. Think I've got it. Just need a little practice. Man, I'll be happy when I get this! I've learned a lot from this post. Thanks again!