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I like girls.

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Originally Posted by CologneJunkie I like girls. me too.

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Originally Posted by linnea The "down low" is horribly dangerous. Not only are those men at high risk for contracting or spreading disease, there are unsuspecting people in their lives that are also at high risk for being infected. I wish those guys would just be honest with themselves. We're in the 21st century, and there's nothing wrong with folks who are gay! However, there is something deeply, fundamentally wrong with guys like Ted Haggard and others who engage in down-low behavior.
true! i was told some women who end up at the hospital for various reasons are stunned whe told they re HIV+ specially when they re monogamous!!

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Originally Posted by maksidrom Unfortunately it is all too true. Someone I know who is in the management of an AIDS clinic told me that to get more people to finally admit that they need a test or checkup (and an anonymous at that!) they finally had to introduce/invent a new category - "men who have sex with men". Seriously, to a lot of men it is so difficult to admit that they are gay that when they see that form (anonymous again!) with the only options as "straight" or "gay" they just opt out from having a test altogether, knowing very well that they need it.
He told me that I would be surprised by how many married christian family men check "men who have sex with men" option, it's by far their biggest segment of population. It would have been funny if it weren't so sad. i also heard that closeted married men are the biggest segment of men who commit homosexual acts altogether.
i feel bad for their wives, really sad for them.

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Originally Posted by En Avion i also heard that closeted married men are the biggest segment of men who commit homosexual acts altogether.
i feel bad for their wives, really sad for them.
No kidding! I wonder how these women felt about the film ' Brokeback Mountain.' Somehow I felt it ignored that side of it. Hmm . . . material for a completely different film? These days a politicaly incorrect one? Doubt it could get produced in this town.
One of my best female friends was informed by her would be husband--in her 6th month of her pregnancy-- that he was gay or bi or--well, sometimes had affairs with other men. He told her very casually as in ' Doesn't everyone? '
Unfortunately for her, ( though no HIV, mercifully) this was the least of this particular cretin's problems. Hitting women came first, a fact she soon discovered.
Her kid is now 13. He sees her every other weekend, and my firend has had to take him to court to force him to pay the child support he agreed to, rather minimal considering he's a doctor working for the V.A. making close to half a million a year. (No, I am NOT making this up) They've attatched part of his wages, but he still nickels and dimes her for extra curricular activities for the kid, knowing she can't possibly afford to take him to court each time.
Yes, of course there are heterosexual men who are just as bad--or much worse.
Pax,
Mario.
(Straight, though terribly worried I'm turning monogamous in my old age)

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Originally Posted by Mario Justiniani No kidding! I wonder how these women felt about the film ' Brokeback Mountain.' Somehow I felt it ignored that side of it. Hmm . . . material for a completely different film? These days a politicaly incorrect one? Doubt it could get produced in this town. The wive's aspect neglected in BBM? How come we know so much about both of them?
Ennis and Jack fell in love with each other, and it was Ennis who wouldn't want the full and natural consequences from that. He loved his then fiancé, later his wife, and he also loved their two daughters. Ennis entered into an honest marriage, and he wasn't gay. Alma divorced him for more than one reason, and she married someone else. Even after that Ennis didn't go for other men, and he also didn't keep his promise meeting Jack regularly. His last postcard to Jack was returned: 'recipient deceased'. That's how he learned...
Jack obviously needed men (his trips to Mexico). How many married men don't go on trips without their family occasionally. We usually assume they meet other women. But Jack did not. Does it really matter? For his wife and her family this wasn't more tragic than it would have been if Jack had been a womanizer. Murdering the son in law is the only vicious and unnecessary act in the whole movie. Strangely, this was not touched upon in any of the reviews I have read. So when I saw it, this was the only thing that surprised. It next to shocked me.
There was a woman who did not loose her husband: Jack's mother. And like mothers sometimes are, she knew who Ennis was long before he came for his first and last visit. And we have an idea how her own marriage may have been. Did they ever see their only grandson? We know a lot about the two families of Jack and Ennis because they wanted a place near their people, they didn't choose to be outcasts. Some nasty people forced them to be.
Deserted girls, wives, mothers - this is an old and an important theme. But if a husband wants a divorce to get engaged otherwise, what difference does it make if the 'third' person is a woman or a man? Your best friend's would-be husband, how important is he for this discussion? 10% of all lousy guys are likely to also be gay. You do not want to indicate your friend wouldn't have any of the problems described if the father of their child were straight as an arrow, or do you?
I hope not to confuse matters, voting now !

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I agree with everything, just everything, Narcus said. Female roles fleshed out much more fully in the film than in the story. All handled damn sensitively. Citing one example of a fcukwit in a failing marriage who also happens to be gay proves nothing other than the point that some men (gay bi straight uncertain) are fcukwits.
We should more question why the hell so many men who seem gay still end up getting married in the first place, in spite of apparent social changes...

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you guys don 't realise how traumatic such a situation it is for any married woman!
millions of women cope with cheating husbands everyday, we all know that but being involved with a husband who fucks with men it 's very different.
first you don 't realise women are caught up with kids and in too many cases no jobs, no possible independance, then she realises her marriage is a lie, a social facade and she has to deal with it and maybe has noone to talk to. she will go through shame, guilt, questioning her feminity when she 's probably always been faithful while her husband commits homosexual acts or even fall in love with another man.
'why some men who have homosexual tendencies end up married to women in the first place!" good point - social pressure my dear!
everybody thinks the nature of a a gay man is effeminate, specially women think that actually - so when homosexual men are straight-acting, "normal looking" they think it 's better to avoid the gay label thats going to be a burden for life.
the most respected person in society is a white heterosexual male, if you can fool anyone you re straight, why coming out?

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Originally Posted by En Avion 'why some men who have homosexual tendencies end up married to women in the first place!" good point - social pressure my dear!
everybody thinks the nature of a a gay man is effeminate, specially women think that actually - so when homosexual men are straight-acting, "normal looking" they think it 's better to avoid the gay label thats going to be a burden for life.
the most respected person in society is a white heterosexual male, if you can fool anyone you re straight, why coming out? Well I'm gay, but I am also a punk, piercings, mohawk, the whole nine yards, when I walk into a gay bar everyone thinks I am straight. Tonight me and my boyfriend, also a punk, were at a bar and the first person to speak to me asked very defensively if we were there to start a fight or find a victim to bash. The thing is that I am completely and totally out, my friends, my family, my coworkers, everyone knows that I am gay. So while I could easily pass for straight I never have tried to and never wanted to, being who I am is what is important to me and I could care less what other people think. Oh yeah, and I live in a very conservative southern city and even that hasn't caused me to hide who I am. So it is more than societal pressures, it is deep insecurities that keep guys so deep in the closet that they get married to women, if that is the reason they get married. I also know a few guys who are out now but were married to women, all of them didn't realize they were gay until several years after they got married, some of them stayed married longer than they should have, but not really to hide but because they really loved their wives, they just didn't have a strong sexual attraction to them. Very few issues regarding human sexuality are cut and dry, especially not this one.

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Originally Posted by En Avion if you can fool anyone you re straight, why coming out? because you can't fool yourself