Question:
http://anyasgarden.blogspot.com/2007...laudamiel.html
You have to click on the link, then click on two pages of PDF to view.
edited to add:
Someone just emailed me the links don't work. They do, but you have to go to the Guild page, look under Articles, and then click on the page one and page two links. Sorry I couldn't figure an easier way to make it available.

Answer:
He (Laudamiel) says that combining a woody note with lavender and rosemary is predictable. "That smells like old gentleman" - maybe this is the answer to all of those old man threads

Basically the article states what Scentemantal had mentioned before in one of his threads, that there are some effects that cannot be created using natural ingredients only, and that naturals + synthetics is the way forward.

Answer:
I read one of Mandy Aftel's books a few years ago before I started getting my feet wet with DIY perfumery. It was interesting and educational.
But for the life of me... the whole "Natural Perfumery" thing seems like such a Luddite notion. When you have such wonderful things as hedione and iso butyl quinoline sitting there staring you in the face, how can you say no?
Is it not like Bob Dylan getting booed for playing an electric guitar?
I can't really diss the whole movement yet, because I haven't smelled any of Aftel's (or others') creations--but to me, "natural perfumery" seems like a handicap. Like the sack-race at a company picnic.


Answer:
Originally Posted by Natural_Juice http://anyasgarden.blogspot.com/2007...laudamiel.html
You have to click on the link, then click on two pages of PDF to view.
edited to add:
Someone just emailed me the links don't work. They do, but you have to go to the Guild page, look under Articles, and then click on the page one and page two links. Sorry I couldn't figure an easier way to make it available. Of course it would be easier to link us to the magazine and the publication of Feb 07(!) directly - this way: http://www.artisannaturalperfumers.org/news.htm
But you never miss a chance to draw basenoters' attention to your own little blog and e-trade. Don't take this personal if I see this as sales promotion even if it's veiled! ---Adding to my delight: I use Adobe 7.08, and it refuses to download the pages
Indie_Guy '..to me, "natural perfumery" seems like a handicap. Like the sack-race at a company picnic.'

Answer:
Originally Posted by narcus Of course it would be easier to link us to the magazine and the publication of Feb 07(!) directly - this way: http://www.artisannaturalperfumers.org/news.htm
But you never miss a chance to draw basenoters' attention to your own little blog and e-trade. Don't take this personal if I see this as sales promotion even if it's veiled! ---Adding to my delight: I use Adobe 7.08, and it refuses to download the pages
Narcus, thank you so much for your kind suggestion, and I will take your posting suggestions under consideration, especially since no one has ever pointed out such a faux pas on my part before. I'm always up for a prod from a Netiquette-savvy teacher, always. And here I thought that the best way to get the word out was to put it on a blog, which spiders love, to help spread the word about it -- which they did.
About your accusation of sales promotion, you're wrong, but that's OK, I don't care.
So sorry your Adobe is deficient -- everyone else seems to be able to view it, so I guess your delight is ongoing, but your ability to read the informative and interesting interview is nonexistent. You must have a bug.
--------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Indie_Guy I read one of Mandy Aftel's books a few years ago before I started getting my feet wet with DIY perfumery. It was interesting and educational.
But for the life of me... the whole "Natural Perfumery" thing seems like such a Luddite notion. When you have such wonderful things as hedione and iso butyl quinoline sitting there staring you in the face, how can you say no?
Is it not like Bob Dylan getting booed for playing an electric guitar?
I can't really diss the whole movement yet, because I haven't smelled any of Aftel's (or others') creations--but to me, "natural perfumery" seems like a handicap. Like the sack-race at a company picnic.
Personally, I think hedione and other synths smell flat and boring, but that's my opinion.
Bob Dylan analogy. Priceless.
Your last paragraph defies any reply.You haven't sampled. Yet you diss. Okey dokey. Interesting.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Natural_Juice --------------------------------------
Personally, I think hedione and other synths smell flat and boring, but that's my opinion.
Bob Dylan analogy. Priceless.
Your last paragraph defies any reply.You haven't sampled. Yet you diss. Okey dokey. Interesting. (This isn't necessarily at you, Natural_Juice, but the "Nat-sies" in general.)
Well, maybe the reason I haven't sampled the "natural perfumes" is... WHERE ARE THEY? I'm not trying to be a doofus, but when one thinks of the the "greats" of perfumery, where are Aftel's entries? I want something that smells abstract and otherworldly and not like potpourri sachets or hand lotion.
It's funny now with all of the labelling requirements how much is revealed about those who claim to not use synthetics. I may be wrong, but wasn't Diptyque claiming to only use naturals? Well, I'm holding the box for Tam Dao in my hand and it says," sd alcohol 39c, fragrance, water, LINALOOL, LIMONENE, GERANIOL, BENZYL BENZOATE"
L'Occitane was another that tried to give off the impression of all natural. Here are the ingredients of Eau Du Badian, "Alcohol Denat, Water, Fragrance, LIMONENE, LINALOOL, BUTYLPHENYL METHYLPROPIONAL, COUMARIN, ALPHA-METHYL IONONE..." and the list goes on.
Even the Creeds now have to put a sticker on the side of the box that discloses certain ingredients, some synthetic. With all of the script on the back about the ambergris, rare essences, et cetera--- that little sticker kind of wears like a weeping cold sore. Tee-hee.
My beef with the Natural Perfumery movement stems from the notion that synthetics are bad by definition. It seems like kind of a "hippie" cliché. I believe one is capable of making good smelling fragrances with all natural ingredients, but there are just so many things they could never do.
I'll admit that as a DIY perfumer, I'm a novice. So if there's something I can learn, then I'll eagerly defer to someone who knows something I don't. But then again, I'm not interested in recreating some Pre-Victorian lilac water or something Oliver Cromwell's wife wore on her wedding day. I want modern baby!

Answer:
Originally Posted by Indie_Guy (This isn't necessarily at you, Natural_Juice, but the "Nat-sies" in general.)
Well, maybe the reason I haven't sampled the "natural perfumes" is... WHERE ARE THEY? I'm not trying to be a doofus, but when one thinks of the the "greats" of perfumery, where are Aftel's entries? I want something that smells abstract and otherworldly and not like potpourri sachets or hand lotion.
It's funny now with all of the labelling requirements how much is revealed about those who claim to not use synthetics. I may be wrong, but wasn't Diptyque claiming to only use naturals? Well, I'm holding the box for Tam Dao in my hand and it says," sd alcohol 39c, fragrance, water, LINALOOL, LIMONENE, GERANIOL, BENZYL BENZOATE"
L'Occitane was another that tried to give off the impression of all natural. Here are the ingredients of Eau Du Badian, "Alcohol Denat, Water, Fragrance, LIMONENE, LINALOOL, BUTYLPHENYL METHYLPROPIONAL, COUMARIN, ALPHA-METHYL IONONE..." and the list goes on.
Even the Creeds now have to put a sticker on the side of the box that discloses certain ingredients, some synthetic. With all of the script on the back about the ambergris, rare essences, et cetera--- that little sticker kind of wears like a weeping cold sore. Tee-hee.
My beef with the Natural Perfumery movement stems from the notion that synthetics are bad by definition. It seems like kind of a "hippie" cliché. I believe one is capable of making good smelling fragrances with all natural ingredients, but there are just so many things they could never do.
I'll admit that as a DIY perfumer, I'm a novice. So if there's something I can learn, then I'll eagerly defer to someone who knows something I don't. But then again, I'm not interested in recreating some Pre-Victorian lilac water or something Oliver Cromwell's wife wore on her wedding day. I want modern baby! Nat-sies is offensive, even if it isn't aimed at me. We're just people who like essences that are complex and exciting and don't come from a test tube. Since Luca Turin took swipes at us, it's the mainstream folks who attack us, not the other way around. Many of us do like a spectrum of scents, we just choose to compose with naturals.
Since natural perfumery in its modern incarnation is only about 6 years old, I think Mandy Aftel making it onto Basenotes http://www.basenotes.net/articles/moveshake24.html Top 25 Movers and Shakers makes your second comment moot. She's in Bendels and other stores and they're not known for lilac and potpourri scents, and either is she (or I). Indie, you really should do your homework before you make such statements, and sample the perfumes because as I type this I realize I'm not making any headway with you unless you do.
None of the three companies you cite are natural perfumery companys, they've often stated they're "mostly natural", and the chems you have in boldface are, for the most part, allergens found in *naturals*.
Ending note: if you are offended that *some* NP'ers find synths offensive, ignore them. They won't notice. If you keep stating that natural perfumes smell like Victorian scents, you'll keep making yourself look foolish. Either sample them and make informed comments, or leave it alone.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Indie_Guy
It's funny now with all of the labelling requirements how much is revealed about those who claim to not use synthetics. I may be wrong, but wasn't Diptyque claiming to only use naturals? Well, I'm holding the box for Tam Dao in my hand and it says," sd alcohol 39c, fragrance, water, LINALOOL, LIMONENE, GERANIOL, BENZYL BENZOATE"

L'Occitane was another that tried to give off the impression of all natural. Here are the ingredients of Eau Du Badian, "Alcohol Denat, Water, Fragrance, LIMONENE, LINALOOL, BUTYLPHENYL METHYLPROPIONAL, COUMARIN, ALPHA-METHYL IONONE..." and the list goes on.

Even the Creeds now have to put a sticker on the side of the box that discloses certain ingredients, some synthetic. With all of the script on the back about the ambergris, rare essences, et cetera--- that little sticker kind of wears like a weeping cold sore. Tee-hee. Many of those ingredients are naturally occuring chemicals.

Geranoil is found in rose oil.
Linalool is from many natural plants.
Coumarin is from tonka bean and other various grasses.
etc.

I dont think many of the niche fragrances are 100% natural or claim to be. For example, Creeds statements are that they use the highest percentages of natural components in the french industry; they dont claim to be 100% natural. From what I know, 10-15% of the Creed ingredients are synthetic (which is still pretty low).

Answer:
Originally Posted by Natural_Juice Nat-sies is offensive, even if it isn't aimed at me.
. heh-heh, don't get all offended, I didn't even realize that nat-sies sounded like "nazis" until I was rereading my thread, and was getting ready to submit it. Alas, it was too good not to use though. Come on, take a joke.
As to your point about the three companies I named not being "natural" companies, well I knew that-- I mentioned them because these companies, through their ads and marketing, tend to give the hazy impression that natural=better, and their products are all natural.
I admit to bashing the whole "natural only" movement without properly smelling much or any such examples. My reason being that I personally like aldehydes and other chemical smells. I couldn't live without my Odeur 53. If a person wants to limit their palette to exclude certain things, that's their prerogative. I would be surprised if examples of natural perfumery bowled me over, but if they do--I'll publicly say so, and I'll eat my shorts. But it's not like any of the fragrances that Basenoters are talking about, reviewing, and openly coveting are so called "naturals" to my knowledge. I could be wrong.
And I'm not offended, as you say, because "some" NP'ers "find synths offensive". Just baffled by it. I'm not worried about looking foolish. I know there's a real craft behind being a perfumer, regardless-- Nowadays though, synthetics aren't used just as cheap substitutes for natural ingredients--synthetics are being recognized for their own elemental properties.
I'm intrigued now to try some of the "all natural" perfumes and see what the fuss is about. I'd like to go to the store right now and try some, but unfortunately...somebody has tied my shoelaces to the chair...